Finding the age of Harmony H1260 Sovereign

Led-Beatlin · #1 10-22-2019, 05:56 PM

Hello! I’m brand new to this group but a long time player. Looking for some help! I just picked up a 1960s Harmony H1260 Sovereign acoustic. It’s Mint and sounds amazing. . The serial number stamped inside is 8870H1260. I have looked online everywhere and I can’t find a source that explains how to tell the year of the guitar based on this number. All I could find was they were made between 1958-1971. Anyone know how to date these vintage harmonies? Any help is appreciated!

beatcomber · #2 10-22-2019, 07:03 PM

I do not believe that Harmony guitars have any clues to their specific date of manufacture.

Osage · #3 10-22-2019, 07:07 PM

Serial numbers are useless for dating unfortunately. Best you can do is go by features and check old catalogs. Things like adjustable truss rod have specific years where they started so you can typically narrow it down pretty close if you out the time in.

McCawber · #4 10-22-2019, 07:19 PM

Congrats on your find, whatever the year! That was my first guitar and I've been lusting for one for a long time! Pictures?

Brucebubs · #5 10-22-2019, 07:40 PM

Jimmy did OK with his!

H165 · #6 10-22-2019, 07:51 PM

Most older Harmony guitars have a very small and faint blue or black ink stamp inside on the back and sometines other places. They can be VERY hard to find and see. Some have faded to nothing.

This is often a three digit stamp beginning with S or F. Typical quote from a (referenced) webpage on the subject:

"Find the date stamp on the inside of the guitar. This is usually located inside the sound hole or cutaway. Some models have it stamped on the inside of the top of the guitar, near the neck. You will need a small mirror to locate the stamp if this is the case. The older Harmony guitars have a date stamp. An example would be "F-64," or "S-56." The F or S are believed to stand for Fall or Spring, indicating the time of year the guitar was made. The number would be the last two digits of the year the guitar was made, such as 1964 and 1956 in this example. If the date stamped is before 1975, it is most likely an American-made guitar."

< Ref >

https://ourpastimes.com/help-identif...-12438561.html

beatcomber · #7 10-23-2019, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H165

Most older Harmony guitars have a very small and faint blue or black ink stamp inside on the back and sometines other places. They can be VERY hard to find and see. Some have faded to nothing.

This is often a three digit stamp beginning with S or F. Typical quote from a (referenced) webpage on the subject:

"Find the date stamp on the inside of the guitar. This is usually located inside the sound hole or cutaway. Some models have it stamped on the inside of the top of the guitar, near the neck. You will need a small mirror to locate the stamp if this is the case. The older Harmony guitars have a date stamp. An example would be "F-64," or "S-56." The F or S are believed to stand for Fall or Spring, indicating the time of year the guitar was made. The number would be the last two digits of the year the guitar was made, such as 1964 and 1956 in this example. If the date stamped is before 1975, it is most likely an American-made guitar."

< Ref >

https://ourpastimes.com/help-identif...-12438561.html

I'm not 100% certain that this info is correct. Aren't those actually model numbers or am I misremembering what I was told?

LemonCats · #8 10-23-2019, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatcomber

I'm not 100% certain that this info is correct. Aren't those actually model numbers or am I misremembering what I was told?

Since there are no harmony f-64 or s-56 models these are dates

Osage · #9 10-23-2019, 08:06 AM

It's mostly correct. The F and S didn't stand for Spring and Fall but First half of the year and Second half of the year. Harmony shut down the factory for 2 weeks every July and when they got back to work the Letter would switch from F to S.

Many Harmony's don't have this date stamp though and if all you have is the serial number, which it appears the OP does, there's no way to date it from that. They would actually reset these numbers every batch of a certain model.

owen006 · #10 10-23-2019, 09:32 AM

http://harmony.demont.net/

This site contains a wealth of info on Harmony guitars. It is pretty easy to navigate. Just click on the model number and it will have catalog links, user-supplied pictures, descriptions of different distinguishing features between years of production, etc.

zombywoof · #11 10-23-2019, 01:40 PM

The number you give is not a serial number but some kind of production number which nobody has ever been able to interpret. They are as useless as the numbers inside Kay guitars. First off, look under the top as Harmony on occasion placed a date stamp there. But there are a few clues to help you out without a date stamp. First is the logo. Prior to 1963 Harmony used a block letter logo on the Sovereign 1260. After that it was script. Also. around 1965 or 1966 Harmony went with a longer bridge plate in the Sovereign 1260. Ain't much but better than nothing. I own three Sovereigns - a block letter logo 1260 which I have owned since dirt, a 1965-66 brownbust Silvertone 633, and a 1969 Sovereign. I also own a 1930s Supertone, a 1942 H165 Stella (the only know surviving example), and a 1956 H40 which has a Gibson P13 pickup mounted underneath the fingerboard extension and was only in the catalog three years.

zombywoof · #12 10-23-2019, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Jimmy did OK with his!

When the internet came on the scene, that photo single handedly caused an uptick in the price of Sovereigns. Luckily it has calmed down since then.

Silly Moustache · #13 10-23-2019, 02:43 PM

Q - How can I date my Harmony guitar from the serial number ?
A - Usually you will find two stamps inside your Harmony guitar. They always are on a place easy to read, ie near the f-holes on a archtop. The larger one is the serial number, and the part after the "H" letter is the model number. For example, on the photo below this guitar is without doubt a H22 (You can type a model number, with the H, on the search box on top of this page). The first part of the serial number has no precise meaning relative to the date of production. It seems Harmony reset these numbers in every batch of the model, so a "6690H22" can be older than a "123H22" for example. Tip : on many guitars (easy to check on flat top acoustics), Harmony stamped the top of the guitar as well as the back, so if the number on the back is difficult to read, use a mirror and check under the top (near the neck)
The other smaller stamp is the date stamp and indicates the year of production. It's said that the letter at the beginning indicates the period of the year, like "F" for "Fall" or "S" for "Spring". That was before Ed, a former worker from the Harmony factory, said : "The company closed down production every July for two weeks. During the last two weeks of June an effort was made to finish as many orders as possible and not start any new orders. The last days of June, we had a complete inventory. I believe the "F'" and "S" may have stood for first and second half of the year."
Photo below : this H22 bass is from 1964

Harmony date stamp

Photo below : this flat top guitar is from 1957. There is some variation in theses date stamps, (in an oval box on some pre-war models), but usually all guitars had one. Sometimes it's difficult to see or read.

Harmony date stamp

Date from pickups

On electric guitars with "DeArmond" pickups, you should be able to find a precise date stamped on the back of the pickups, or on the back of the pickguard (some screws to remove). These are supposedly the manufacture date of the electrical harness or pickguard assembly, by Rowe Industries, but should give a close guess to the year of production of the guitar itself.

phcorrigan · #14 10-23-2019, 06:18 PM

I had that guitar from about 1963 to 1970, when it met an untimely end. I paid $25 for it.

I liked it a lot, but I've since had guitars I've liked much more. I've seen a couple of similar Sovereigns at the local GC for sale in the $150-250 range, but both were in very rough condition and had bowed necks.

Whatever you pay for it, I would have it checked out by a trusted luthier before you buy it, since those I've seen haven't aged well.

zombywoof · #15 10-24-2019, 09:27 AM

The only other difference I could think of which would be helpful in dating an H1260 is the appearance of "Made in the U.S.A." on the truss rod cover. This though seems to coincide with the swicth from the block letter to script logo on that model. But as you might have figured out by now dating Harmonys is tough as they tended to remain rather consistent right down to the tuners. So distinguishing what specific year an H1260 was built between say 1963 and 1970 is virtually impossible without a date stamp. I have seen a chart of the various styles of date stamps used by Harmony but this is obviously only useful when the stamp is there but illegible.