So just how do you post constructive critism?

[Jeff M]

I guess it's a matter of having a feeling for when advice will be useful, putting yourself in the others shoes, being honest and at the same time encouraging.
The old "the glass is half full, not half empty" approach.

Don't patronize. If something is obviously "off", don't try to make excuses for it. Just makes it worse.
If something is amiss, the person most likely already knows it. (Goes for most things in life. )

[vti814ce]

Alot of perfectly true and agreeable statements above. TB, in your case, I think I know you well enough to say that you were trying to offer what the OP asked for. Its not your fault they didnt like the response, Im sure you didnt mean ANYTHING in a mean or condescending manner, quite the opposite. However, Like someone said, its art and people are funny, I get on you all the time and we are fine . Someone else may think I dont have the right to make an opinion after they ask for it simply because it goes against their feelings about the piece. There's a ton of stuff posted here I would never pay to hear, but in the spirit of comraderie when someone ask's for feedback I look for what I like about the piece and focus on that. Especially since I have respect for those who are willing to put it out there, I think its usually better to say something nice, especially in this enviornment where much is lost in translation. I think most are much better than me anyway, and since I own no recording equipment I only try to offer up what they ask, especially since I dont think I could do better.

Sometimes people are just too sensitive. FWIW, I think your one of the nicest and most helpful members we have. The OP that I think we are refering to is a really nice guy as well, IMO. I believe its just an internet thing, in person I doubt it would be misunderstood as easily, I would hope!

Take care,

Sammy

[Kevin Reagan]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Now I want to approach this topic from a personal point of view...
When I write or arrange something and then tweak it, I'll carefully choose those who I choose to give me feedback in the areas of their:

• Personal musical taste
• Assessment of the musicality of the piece
• Impression of the arrangement
• Possible additions or subtractions
• Technical help
• Arrangement alterations

I relate to this well. I've only put out two songs on guitar forums for a truly unbiased public opinion, but I've found that most folk browsing forums such as these have music tastes that vary from my own, as well as my target audience. For the most part, I have one main set of ears to bounce ideas off of, then about half a dozen more that I go to afterwards. So far, it's certainly helped me advance musically.

Criticism has ranged from "HOLY #$%&!! GET THAT ON THE RADIO!!" to "Kevin, this is some of the worst #$%& I've ever heard," and everything in between. No holds are barred.

...and have I told you guys about the various uses of the word "#$%&?"

[sharkydude50]

First- you call it "constructive comments", not critism.
Second- you always start with something positive about the piece- pick anything that was good/enjoyable about it.

[Marshall]

People post their music for different reasons.

1. Some people are novices and are looking for assurance and encouragement more than real advice. At least the advice should be gentle and affirming.

2. Other people are very good at this, and they know it. They really don't care what anyone thinks. They're just asking for comments because they want you to listen to get their clicks up. Or maybe they want to hob-knob with their fellow wizzards.

3. Then there are those people somewhere in the middle.

I try to be wary of what group the person is in. In each case, the music has to connect with me on some level if I'm going to make any comment. Styles are different. There's no reason my preferences are any better than anyone elses. So, if I don't like something, I just don't say anything. I reserve comments for those tunes that have made a connection to me somehow. And I hope that the writer will take that comment and file it away in their memory bank and maybe sometime in the future they will benefit from reading it. Either that, or feel free to ignore it. I haven't been given any special portion of truth to dole out.

Oh. And I don't have time to click on everything that gets posted. So, my absence from comment doesn't mean I don't like something. (Not that you should care).

And people need to develop a tougher skin. It's the freaking internet, afterall.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by TBman

The other day I made the mistake of posting an honest opinion about someone's song and I think I really offended the OP. The OP had given me great advice over the years and I thought I was returning the favor by giving a critique.

Do you give honest answers, or don't post at all if you don't exactly like what was put up for review?

Just curious.

i'm always open and honest. if people are bold enough to post songs where they sing off key i pretty much tell them that "the vocals are off key". if the guitar is out of tune i tell them so. if the drums are sloppy or cheap sounding i tell them. i don't criticize song writing too much, as so few people are any good at it, but if they have the stones to put up an original song they deserve an honest opinion. if someone gets offended i just don't bother responding to their song posts anymore.

bill

[rjacobs]

I wouldn't post a song if I weren't ready for criticism, and in fact to me that's the whole point - that's how songs get better. Sometimes it just takes a second pair of ears. Anyway, to the OP, I hope one guy's reaction doesn't stop you from posting your objective comments.

[Taylor_Nut]

I am new to this recording thing and find it is a great way to grow as a musician. I take critcism for what it is meant to be for me...a helpful way to improve. How can I add or subtract from the tune to make it hit home? I do not post to get a pat on the back even though an occasional attaboy feels good. I have fun doing this and no amount of bad press will deter me from it. I think a crusty exterior is a good thing to have sometimes along with a compassionate inside to know when and when not to comment; even when it is asked for by another. I usually will not comment if I flat out do not like the composition but also will not if my feelings have been already stated by someone else in the thread.

I know there are far more people in the world who have an opinion than those that have a good one

TNuT

[IainDearg]

I made the mistake of posting an honest opinion about someone's song

That can never be a mistake from my point of view.

I share the opinion that folks who post songs with a view to getting criticism should be adult enough to handle whatever comes their way.

It's true that some "criticism" can be inappropriate, miss the poiont, or even rude, but that comes with the country.

[Eracer]

If I wanted become a professional musician, and I used an internet forum as a platform, I would have to expect criticism. People have opinions, and no matter how "cautious," "tactful," or "gentle" the overall tone of the forum is, criticisms will arise from the anonymous sea.

If I posted a song and a hundred people told me, "You should just quit. You really have no talent, and your voice is dreadful," then I would have a couple of choices.

One, I could take that advice, sell my instruments, and go back to watching reruns of American Idol.

Two, I could accept that maybe being a professional wasn't in the cards, and continue playing and singing anyway - just because it brings me pleasure.

Or three, I could use that criticism as a motivator. I could redouble my efforts to improve myself, take more lessons, work harder, and never lose sight of my dream.

One choice I really wouldn't have is to get mad at those who gave their opinions.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Eracer

If I posted a song and a hundred people told me, "You should just quit. You really have no talent, and your voice is dreadful," then I would have a couple of choices.

Hmm...that wouldn't be constructive criticism on music posted...however, that would be an insult AND not nice.

[Chicago Sandy]

Originally Posted by Kevin Reagan

I relate to this well. I've only put out two songs on guitar forums for a truly unbiased public opinion, but I've found that most folk browsing forums such as these have music tastes that vary from my own, as well as my target audience. For the most part, I have one main set of ears to bounce ideas off of, then about half a dozen more that I go to afterwards. So far, it's certainly helped me advance musically.

Criticism has ranged from "HOLY #$%&!! GET THAT ON THE RADIO!!" to "Kevin, this is some of the worst #$%& I've ever heard," and everything in between. No holds are barred.

...and have I told you guys about the various uses of the word "#$%&?"

Who knew?? I thought it only had four letters!

Seriously, though, save the hard criticism for those you are sure can take it. When I was starting out and released my first CD, I figured I needed every possible review I could get in order to build a one-sheet. The vast majority were highly complimentary--most were enthusiastic about all cuts and a couple skipped over those aspects that (impliedly) didn't wow them and instead explicitly focused on what they found outstanding. But one person told me to submit to a couple of publications I didn't know reviewed major-label artists along with newbies, and held everyone to the same standard. One said that my voice didn't have the "edge necessary to be competitive in today's pop and country markets." I was so devastated I didn't notice the parts that said "an able wordsmith and a fine melodist" and praised specific songs and my playing. Three years later, knowing what I know now about my voice and having improved it through diligent therapy and study, the other review came out. The reviewer was flabbergasted when I wrote back and told him I knew exactly what he was talking about, agreed with him, and to expect a quantum leap in vocal quality for my upcoming release. He has since gone to individual newer song downloads and is nagging me to finally release my next CD so he can review it.

The difference in my attitudes then and now? Time, maturity, knowledge of the marketplace, practice, and confidence. You can suss out who is a noob and who ought to be held to a higher standard, and respond accordingly.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Bern

Hmm...that wouldn't be constructive criticism on music posted...however, that would be an insult AND not nice.

A rather fine point, don't you think? Perhaps the person making that comment was in the music business, and felt that the blunt truth would serve me best. Polite is not always the most constructive.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Eracer

A rather fine point, don't you think? Perhaps the person making that comment was in the music business, and felt that the blunt truth would serve me best. Polite is not always the most constructive.

Hi E...
In this group, the number one rule is ''Be nice.'' That sometimes comes into conflict with ''Be Blunt''.

And even with emoticons things can appear harsh in print since people cannot see our faces and hear the tone of our sweet voices.