So just how do you post constructive critism?

[TBman]

The other day I made the mistake of posting an honest opinion about someone's song and I think I really offended the OP. The OP had given me great advice over the years and I thought I was returning the favor by giving a critique.

Do you give honest answers, or don't post at all if you don't exactly like what was put up for review?

Just curious.

[rmyAddison]

I post originals here, get hundreds of hits on my soundtrack site in one day, and have to beg for comments, strange to me. But I am greatful that those hits have given me 5 #1 songs.

Criticism is tough, and the vast majority of folks here are enthusiasts not professionals, so what is that criticism worth sometimes? And some criticism is very accurate and beneficial.

My thoughts, if you really don't like something move on. If you can offer real constructive criticism (don't breathe during a phrase, the song needs a bridge, the story isn't clear enough, mics are too hot or too low) AND the poster has asked for criticism, then be nice but critique.

Common sense and courtesy............

[3rd_harmonic]

I'd say choose your criticism. Pick some thing that you think the player can realistically go after and offer a suggestion.

I'm no better or worse than most at taking criticism, but if I can't get some criticism here, I might as well go play to my wife's rabbits. So, if someone asks, give it. There have been times when I've said "I'm not ready for criticism" but I want to post anyhow for comments. Maybe it's a fine line between comments and criticism, but I make the distinction.

Example Comment: That reminds me of some old blues song I heard in Biloxi.

Well maybe that was what I wanted it to sound like. Or maybe it was just the opposite of what I wanted it to sound like. In either case, a non-critical comment is valuable. Maybe we should agree here on what it means when people say " give me a comment" vs "give me some criticism".

[yardism]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

My thoughts, if you really don't like something move on. If you can offer real constructive criticism (don't breathe during a phrase, the song needs a bridge, the story isn't clear enough, mics are too hot or too low) AND the poster has asked for criticism, then be nice but critique.

Common sense and courtesy............

Thats pretty much how I view it. If something just doesn't do it for me or if it is just BAD, I never comment.

[Frank Roberts]

So just how do you post constructive critism?

Barry,

The short answer is, "Very carefully!" When you are dealing with someone's artistic output, they have put their heart and soul into it and then put it out there, so they are very vulnerable. Some are more sensitive to criticism than others, depending on their respective levels of humility and/or ego.

For my own part, even when I ask for feedback, even the most well intended, constructive criticism can sting. So generally I don't comment on other's stuff unless I have something positive to say. A good rule of thumb is, "Do unto others..." etc. But first, carefully assess whether the poster really wants constructive criticism.

Some here (e.g. Larry aka LJguitar) are very good at presenting constructive criticism that seems well intended and helpful, and appears to try not to be condescending. So the way something is said can have a huge effect on how it is received. You obviously want to help or you wouldn't have made the effort to give the feedback; it must, however, be phrased so your good intentions are highlighted. Here we are again at, "Very carefully!"

[rlouie]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

My thoughts, if you really don't like something move on. If you can offer real constructive criticism (don't breathe during a phrase, the song needs a bridge, the story isn't clear enough, mics are too hot or too low) AND the poster has asked for criticism, then be nice but critique.

Common sense and courtesy............

Originally Posted by yardism

Thats pretty much how I view it. If something just doesn't do it for me or if it is just BAD, I never comment.

both of these posts are right on as far as I'm concerned and are pretty much the rules I follow for critiquing songs ................

[Bern]

Giving comments about musical efforts seems problematic, after all it's subjective in nature, unless, it's something technical (being out of tune, for example). Of course, 'heh, great job', is nice and encouraging, but it doesn't really help the original poster in terms of feedback to improve his or her effort to a higher level. Given the fact that some of us seem to take it VERY personal, if someone critiques with honest intentions, personally, I pick and choose when I feel like commenting. I'm part of this forum for quite sometime now and I pretty much know who wants honest feedback and who doesn't.

[Chicago Sandy]

I don't expect perfection, or--unless the poster is a pro and seeking some degree of commercial success--broadcast-radio quality of production or performance. I have my own shortcomings, so I tread carefully and point out aspects I really, really liked and specific items that I feel can realistically be improved (a sour note, artifact or clam that got through despite obvious efforts to get the rest of the song as cleanly performed and recorded as possible, an effect or technique that doesn't seem to fit the song). I won't ever criticize the general quality of someone's performance or voice--not even when asked. Overall talent can be a very subjective judgment, and I don't feel that's fair game or can be constructive in this setting.

[cotten]

I think "help" is a better word than "criticism." I don't even like the term "constructive criticism." "Help" says I'm honestly trying to encourage you to keep on improving, complimenting you where I can, suggesting things you might want to sharpen up on. "Constructive criticism" sounds to me like someone is going to prune me back to the knees so I can sprout better next time, if I manage to recover and survive.

I work with beginner guitarists a lot, and they can be very sensitive to anything negative I say. I've learned to put suggestions in the positive. Instead of just, "Hey, you're way flat on the high F," I'll offer suggestions to get the voice up on pitch - careful listening, proper support, altered vowel color, etc., or suggest lowering the key to a more comfortable vocal range.

Instead of "Your rhythm is shakey and irratic," I'll suggest working with a metronome, beginning slowly enough so that the tricky chord change on beat 4 of measure 7 doesn't slow things down.

I rarely offer a simple, "I liked it," and I've never, ever told anyone to just give up. I've seen too much enjoyment and progress in those that are seemingly the least talented to do that. And I try to never sound condescending. That's not hard, given my own limitations!

Because this type feedback takes so much thought and energy to make it truly helpful, and because my time here is limited and my duties are many, I seldom offer "help" on this forum. But that's not because I think people's efforts are bad. Necessarily.

cotten

[sarNz]

the biggest compliment ive ever had is 'im going to put this on my ipod'. as a writer, i really dont take that much critique. i feel like the only people who can actually help are the ones who share a similar writing style and know where i want to go in the first place. it may seem arrogant, but its my song dangit! mine!

on the quality however, singing, music, i am very open. sometimes my best still isnt enough, but i like it when people remind me of this and cut me down a few notches. keeps your head from getting too big!

[Sunbreak]

Quite simply, people shouldn't be so sensitive.

Tell the truth as tactfully as you can. Sure, some things are subjective, but others aren't. If you know the difference, speak your mind.

As a fingerstyle ambient guitarist, do you have any idea how many times I've heard "this makes me want to go to sleep."?

[rick-slo]

First make sure the person sharing their music is asking for constructive feedback. Some people are simply sharing their music and not particularly asking for a dissection of their work. Generally the person is their own toughest critic and well aware of what could have been better in both performance and recording quality.
It helps to have some idea of what you are talking about. I generally refrain from making suggestions in areas I have not struggled with myself - for example not being a singer I do not have much to comment on about another persons singing (I may like or not like it overall but probably could not make much in the way of helpful comments). If you want to make more useful comments give the work a listen or two or three so you really get a feel for what was going on. You might start to get a feel for the tenor of the music you missed on a quick once through.
Remember that in subjective areas your opinion is just that, an opinion, so in expressing it you are not just telling the “truth”, you are just giving your subjective impression. I find rather amusingly that sometimes the person offering the “constructive criticism” is offended if his comments are not given “due respect” and agreed with.
Rick

[jaymarsch]

Hello all,

I am rather new to the forum and have posted only a few things.
What I find helps those who I am asking for critique is to be clear on what I want in the way of feedback. This makes it easier for those who want to reply to focus on something and not just try to pull something out of the air. It also helps me in not getting something back that I may not be ready to hear.

Sharing our early and new efforts can be a vulnerable thing to do, so I find it helpful if I am feeling sensitive to narrow what I am asking for to what I am ready to hear and to what I can hone in on to improve.

I find that most people want to be supportive so in giving feedback I like to give one positive and one place where I feel there could be improvement. I think most of us want to become better players, writers and performers, so I appreciate the honesty and try and take care of my own responses. (IMHO)

[TBman]

Good points everyone. I guess the old saying "open mouth, insert foot" applies in this area pretty well.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBman

...Do you give honest answers, or don't post at all if you don't exactly like what was put up for review?

Hi folks...
First let me say I rarely jump in with constructive comments of a directive nature these days in response to posters - unless there is something of a relationship with the person who is asking for comments...because people are usually looking for reinforcement and approval, not direction.

And if I think I have something useful, I'll send them an e-mail or private message and not put it out for public consumption.

I operated a recording studio for about 9 years, and when writers and players asked the ''How did you like that?'' I kept comments pretty sterile and technical, and steered the discussion away from my personal musical preferences or tastes. Most clients were not hiring me to boost their egos, just to capture it as well as we could. Nor did they want me to be the producer and call the shots.

Unless I was the producer, comments as to mistakes were light (I'd ask if they wanted to listen to problem spots and offer to punch-it-in again), and comments on pitch problems that others didn't hear were rare (they could be corrected in the mix stage since I recorded most of the vocals separately).

Now I want to approach this topic from a personal point of view...
When I write or arrange something and then tweak it, I'll carefully choose those who I choose to give me feedback in the areas of their:

• Personal musical taste
• Assessment of the musicality of the piece
• Impression of the arrangement
• Possible additions or subtractions
• Technical help
• Arrangement alterations

I don't toss things out to the masses till I'm in performance environments, and fairly sure the song is doing what I wanted it to, the way I intend for it to. That takes time, and I would be extremely cautious about posting something that had a header indicating that I'd just recorded it yesterday and what do you think. I'm going to put more time into it before it sees the light of day...

What I demand from myself in choosing people to help me shape songs when I'm unsure is that they love me, care about my music as much as theirs, and have sufficient musical knowledge and technical expertise to help...and they have to be pulling for me to succeed with my own ''touch'' to the music.

I perform it for them on an individual face-to-face basis - usually in the living room. I never just hand them a recording and expect constructive decisions to emerge.

Then I take it to the small group level (in my living room), then to the coffee house on a week night and then to our monthly guitar society meeting. By then I've enough reaction and response to finalize a piece and perhaps record and post it to my soundclick site without notifying anyone.

Now let's talk about casual posting...
It's fun and sometimes inspirational, but often not worthy of serious comment as to quality. If it's posted in fun, and received that way, it's fun.