The new Sigma guitars (2012 - )

GetTheFunkOut · #1 07-23-2013, 12:29 PM

You may have seen in another thread I posted today that I am wanting an OM shaped guitar with 1 11/16" nut width under £800. The Blueridge BR 163 is top of my list but a potential problem with a slanted nut which seems to be a 'feature' is putting me off.

Alternatives I have looked at are limited, but the new Sigma line, which came out at some point last year since they were bought up and re released by a new German company.

Two models in particular caught my attention, the Sigma 000r-28 and the 000r-42.

My questions are for anyone who owns, has played, or has some facts about these guitars.

The Blueridge has all solid woods, but the Sigmas have only a solid top. How does the laminate sides effect the guitar? Are they really that much of a downgrade or are they not too bad? Since the price of thees guitars are quite reasonable, I am not too concerned about them being laminate, but obviously if they have a negative impact on tone, I guess I wouldn't want to waste my time.

Also, what are the neck shapes and profiles like on these? I absolutely do not like the Martin V shape necks. Also, I'm not fond of any neck that are described as chunky. The 1 11/16" nut width is essential for me, so the models I listed are the only ones I'd consider, are the necks slim in profile?

Why I like the Blueridge neck is that is has the nut width of choice as well as a very nice neck, where it is slim but not too flat and when I tried it out, it fit my hands well, to the point that it doesn't get in the way or feel difficult to work on. The Martin John Mayer guitar was the guitar I would really like but far too out of my budget. From the descriptions I have read about his guitar is that the neck is slim/oval shaped and what I'd like to think the BR is similar to in theory, as opposed to the usual Martin V.

I am unable to try these Sigma guitars in person and they are hard find even online in the UK currently, so can only go on what other people can describe them. Likewise, not a lot of info out there on the web about them on forums etc. either.

Thanks for any input on the Sigma guitars you can gave. Any word one build quality or just general thoughts on them would be welcome and useful too.

YamaYairi · #2 07-23-2013, 02:15 PM

In my opinion, laminated back and sides do not affect the sound. I have an old Mountain guitar with solid spruce top and lam back and sides that sounds like an old Martin. I think the reason many people think that laminated back and sides affect the tone is that many times in cheaper guitars, the manufacturer cuts corners in other places that affects the sound.
Having said that, I am also looking at the Blueridge BR163. I can't find any near me to try and I will probably just end up buying one online from Elderly Instruments, since they offer a 1 week trial period where you can ship the guitar back to them if you don't like it. I doubt you will get that offer from any place selling the Sigma guitars. Based on Acoustic Guitar Magazine's review and video of the BR163, I think it's the best sounding and looking guitar out there in this price range. If you can find a store that has the Guild F130 you might want to try that, too, as well as the Yamaha LS6 (which I can't find any to try.) I played the Guild F130 and like it a lot. I think the BR163 may have a warmer sound, which I prefer.

rrudder · #3 07-24-2013, 12:57 AM

I actually had an opportunity over summer family vacation to play one of the new sigmas at Owensboro Music Center in Kentucky. Great guitars, great price. All of the guitars I have currently are lam back and sides so I am not in the market for another one. I am trying to step up to all solid, but man if I was in the market...they are a contender for sure. Great beefy neck on them also, if you like that sorta thing.

reholli · #4 07-24-2013, 01:36 AM

Wish I could comment on Sigmas specifically, but I've never played an old or a new one.

What I can do is address laminated backs and sides. When decent wood is used for all the layers (like Art & Lutherie's 3-layer Wild Cherry laminate backs and sides), I truly believe there is no loss in sound quality whatsoever. I'd even venture to say there may be improvement due to increased structural rigidity and strength, better support for the top, less impact from temperature and humidity, etc.. Considering the number of boutique builders who now build this way with laminate backs and sides and even multilayer tops, that also may say something. Of course, I know nothing about Sigma's laminates, but they've been doing it for awhile.

I've owned 2 brands of guitars in my life, Martin and Art & Lutherie. My Art & Lutherie guitars give up nothing to the Martins I've owned apart from, in the minds of some, aesthetics. A minor issue compared to the price point to my mind...I like the simple basic guitarness of the A & Ls. Of course, others will always argue that they don't sound as good as more expensive solid-wood guitars. Great tone is in the ear of the beholder.

Since there are Blueridge features that you like, I wouldn't worry too much about the uneven nut height on a single sample of a Blueridge guitar. Apart from aesthetics, all that matters is the actual string height (determined by the slot cut of the nut), not the height at the nut's top edge. That can be evened out if uneven without even impacting string height...the strings sit in the slots, not on top of the nut.

lennylux · #5 07-24-2013, 02:28 AM

I have not tried the Sigma line (the new ones) so can't comment there. On the laminates issue, well, there's laminates and there's laminates, some have junk material layers and this will not make for the greatest of sounds, but some of the most expensive production guitars and some of the most coveted vintage guitars have also used lamination in the process, but with layers of good quality materials.

So while laminate is a bit of a dirty word in the guitar world, if needn't be if done correctly.

GetTheFunkOut · #6 07-24-2013, 02:42 AM

Good to hear that laminate back and sides aren't the be all and end all. For the reasonable price of these guitars, if they are likely to sound even just fairly decent, that sits well with me. If anything, the money I save could be put towards saving up for that JM Martin in the long run. Thing is, I need an acoustic guitar or sorts at very latest for things coming up, starting October.

If getting the Sigma could do the trick for the time being, it's better that than not having anything at all to use. Obviously, you might as well have something you are quite comfortable using as opposed to just anything old thing, which is why these guitars are looking like they will be amongst the closest thing to type of guitar I want in my budget at this stage.

Someone mentioned them having big necks? Definitely not my thing. Anyone with some more experience on these necks and their profiles? I know 'big necks' mean different things to different people. Is the shape more rounded or more V shaped?

lennylux · #7 07-24-2013, 02:51 AM

Depends on the line, the DR28-H (a D-28 alike) has the 1 11/16 neck acording to the site, whereas the similar DR-28V has more vintage specs, ie, 1 3/4 nut width and V-neck.

I'd say the modern series are modelled on modern series Martin's and the vintage series on more vintage specs (bigger/fatter necks).

I'd be curious by the DR-28V actually, I love the fat ones, I'm seedy like that.

GetTheFunkOut · #8 07-24-2013, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennylux

Depends on the line, the DR28-H (a D-28 alike) has the 1 11/16 neck acording to the site, whereas the similar DR-28V has more vintage specs, ie, 1 3/4 nut width and V-neck.

I'd say the modern series are modelled on modern series Martin's and the vintage series on more vintage specs (bigger/fatter necks).

I'd be curious by the DR-28V actually, I love the fat ones, I'm seedy like that.

The ones specifically I'm looking at the OM styled ones (the 000-r28V and the 000r-42) which have the 1 11/16" nut, perfect for me. I'd like to assume the necks with be slim in profile to match this, but who knows. I guess from the info you gave, the 28v sounds like it might be a V shape profile then. Shame there's not any info on the Sigma site regarding each model and its profile/shape.

YamaYairi · #9 07-24-2013, 06:52 AM

I had a listen to a couple of demos of the Sigma 000-r28V. It sounds really thin compared to the Blueridge BR163. No bass at all. You would be better off with the Blueridge, Guild F130, or Breedlove C250/SRE.

leehop71 · #10 07-24-2013, 07:00 AM

Some of the guitar makers are making solid top and back and laminated sides like Walden for one.

I've heard luthiers testify to the fact that the top wood is the most important, then the back, and the sides last.

sigma0015s · #11 07-24-2013, 10:01 AM

Hello
I have a Sigma 0015M which has a 1 13/16 nut and a fairly deep soft V profile.
Very nice little guitar which is quite loud for its size.
These new Sigma's are built in the Cort factory and the build quality is very good if mine is typical.
My next guitar will be a Sigma OMR-21 as soon as they turn up in the UK

Felixq78 · #12 03-18-2024, 05:26 PM

My Sigma has a nut width of 1.11/16 which is a pain in the ***, The guitar sounds awesome but it's a pain to play.

bobster7 · #13 03-18-2024, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felixq78

My Sigma has a nut width of 1.11/16 which is a pain in the ***, The guitar sounds awesome but it's a pain to play.

Zombie thread, most of their good models are 1-3/4, even their J-200’s are 1-3/4. Plenty of options. I agree that 1-11/16 nut guitars are a pain in the proverbial though.