Taylor CE Sound

[Rudals]

If this topic has been discussed to death then please let me know and I will delete this thread.

I play my Taylor thru an amp (Ultrasound DS4) when I practice and the sound is to my liking. When my guitar is put thru a PA, it sounds like a tele or an electric guitar. I understand that my Taylor has a magnetic pickup system so that would make sense but it seems like putting it thru a PA takes away the acoustic sound even further. Is it the PA system or is this pretty inevitable given the pickup?

[ChrisE]

Originally Posted by rudals1281

If this topic has been discussed to death then please let me know and I will delete this thread.

I play my Taylor thru an amp (Ultrasound DS4) when I practice and the sound is to my liking. When my guitar is put thru a PA, it sounds like a tele or an electric guitar. I understand that my Taylor has a magnetic pickup system so that would make sense but it seems like putting it thru a PA takes away the acoustic sound even further. Is it the PA system or is this pretty inevitable given the pickup?

When you play through your amp, you've got all the dials set to where it sounds good. When you plug in to a PA, it's not set the same way. I'm sure you or the person running the soundboard could tweak the knobs so that it sounds good there also.

[Rudals]

Originally Posted by ChrisE

When you play through your amp, you've got all the dials set to where it sounds good. When you plug in to a PA, it's not set the same way. I'm sure you or the person running the soundboard could tweak the knobs so that it sounds good there also.

Hmmm...I try from time to time with the bass and treble knobs on my guitar but it still sounds like an electric guitar. But I think you're right because a Martin guitar thru the same PA sounds very acoustic-eee and I think the guitarist and the sound guy spent some time tweaking. Mine guitar reminds me of a tele and I would go even far as a Gibson LP.

[jstegeman]

Originally Posted by rudals1281

Hmmm...I try from time to time with the bass and treble knobs on my guitar but it still sounds like an electric guitar. But I think you're right because a Martin guitar thru the same PA sounds very acoustic-eee and I think the guitarist and the sound guy spent some time tweaking. Mine guitar reminds me of a tele and I would go even far as a Gibson LP.

Are you using Taylor's ES pickup? Are you using a DI box or going straight into a Low-Z input on the PA? I got reasonably "OK" sound with my ES2-equipped Taylor through a DI box into the PA, but it sounds much better going through a TC Helicon Play Acoustic.

[Rudals]

Originally Posted by jstegeman

Are you using Taylor's ES pickup? Are you using a DI box or going straight into a Low-Z input on the PA? I got reasonably "OK" sound with my ES2-equipped Taylor through a DI box into the PA, but it sounds much better going through a TC Helicon Play Acoustic.

ES - Yes
DI Box - Yes
Am I using one that isn't the best with my guitar? Radial JDI.
http://www.radialeng.com/jdi.php

I never bothered to try this setup. Oh man, I cannot wait.

[pieterh]

JDI is one of the best passive DIs on the market and should do a great job with your guitar. However I guess you have the original ES and the electric character is almost impossible to get rid of - which is why I upgraded my 414 to ES2. I am very happy with it, it sounds very natural both live and recorded.


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[Rudals]

Originally Posted by pieterh

JDI is one of the best passive DIs on the market and should do a great job with your guitar. However I guess you have the original ES and the electric character is almost impossible to get rid of - which is why I upgraded my 414 to ES2. I am very happy with it, it sounds very natural both live and recorded.


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Good to know people here know about JDI. The sound guys at my venue don't have a clue and just switch out my DI box with Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box ($40). I quietly switch them back.

I looked into ES2 and it seems like there are mixed reviews. If the overwhelming majority had said, "This is the thing and they have gotten it right" then I would have pulled the trigger. But I still searching for a good pickup.

[jstegeman]

Originally Posted by rudals1281

Good to know people here know about JDI. The sound guys at my venue don't have a clue and just switch out my DI box with Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box ($40). I quietly switch them back.

I looked into ES2 and it seems like there are mixed reviews. If the overwhelming majority had said, "This is the thing and they have gotten it right" then I would have pulled the trigger. But I still searching for a good pickup.

Any chance you can pop into a shop with your guitar and try out a TC Helicon Play Acoustic (if you sing) or BodyRez (if you don't sing) pedal to see if it makes a difference?

[MikeBmusic]

What version of the ES1 do you have - 9volt or 2xAA batteries?
Which Taylor model do you have?
I have a 310ce with ES1.3 and it certainly has never sounded like an electric guitar when plugged into a PA system - and I have plugged into countless different systems. Yes, some systems definitely accent the piezo-type "quack", but if it sounded like my Tele, I'd be scratching my head!

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by rudals1281

Good to know people here know about JDI. The sound guys at my venue don't have a clue and just switch out my DI box with Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box ($40). I quietly switch them back.



I looked into ES2 and it seems like there are mixed reviews. If the overwhelming majority had said, "This is the thing and they have gotten it right" then I would have pulled the trigger. But I still searching for a good pickup.

I got to play a couple of Taylors with the ES2 at Musikmesse 2015 and it encouraged me to upgrade my guitar. I'd already upgraded from 1.1 to 1.3 but was never really happy - acoustic enough with open chords etc but too electric like further up the neck. I've written about this before but I think the problem was partly the location of the mag pup and partly the lack of control over the body sensor (no means of increasing the sensor in the blend).

The ES2 is totally different. To my ears it sounds like an acoustic guitar. In Frankfurt I was listening in headphones, and since my upgrade I have listened to it live and afterwards on recordings and it sounds very natural indeed.

I would seriously recommend you try to hear a guitar with the ES2, I think you'll be impressed.

As for swapping out a JDI for a Behringer DI, that's just crazy. The Taylor is a pickup with a preamp so a very linear passive DI like the JDI is going to be way better than the Behringer.


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[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by pieterh

...As for swapping out a JDI for a Behringer DI, that's just crazy. The Taylor is a pickup with a preamp so a very linear passive DI like the JDI is going to be way better than the Behringer.

Pieterh, in the past you've given me (and others) some good advice, and you and I have also agreed on quite a few things. I'm wondering, I've got a JDI, but I'm wondering if the OP might be served well tonally by swapping out his JDI with a PZ Deluxe or PZ-Pre, or some other high quality Preamp/DI?

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

Pieterh, in the past you've given me (and others) some good advice, and you and I have also agreed on quite a few things. I'm wondering, I've got a JDI, but I'm wondering if the OP might be served well tonally by swapping out his JDI with a PZ Deluxe or PZ-Pre, or some other high quality Preamp/DI?

Thanks for the mention!

I have a Pz-pre and tried for a couple of years to get it to tame the ES1. We shouldn't however mix up the function of DI and pre-amp, even if a pre like the Pz-pre has a balanced output (thus doing the job of a DI).

Radial do a DI especially for acoustic instruments (Pz-DI) which offers three impedances depending on what kind of pickup is connected. It also has a variable low cut and a fixed high cut and we really like them when mixing - but we also have powerful eq on our front of house boards. So it might do the job - but is at least half the price of the ES upgrade and personally I feel the newer ES is a much more natural pickup to begin with. I use my Taylor at some rehearsals without my Pz-pre as I really like the natural sound. I'm not saying it is perfect but it is very good. Imho - and in my experience is that the original ES is going to sound magnetic to a greater or lesser degree, a good preamp will help but won't "cure" the issue.


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[Rudals]

All the recommendation to upgrade to ES2 now got me interested.
I will search this forum and YouTube for the sound difference
https://youtu.be/K3xYGxjcUQo
My first impression is that the ES1 sounds better TO MY EARS.
The ES2 sounds muddy TO MY EARS.