I've seen the light and it shall cost me

[grim83]

I was in a local shop the other day and happened to play a very nice loar archtop. For one reason or another I've always ignored hollow body archtops but now I feel like I've found the holy grail. I can have the howling p90 distortion of George Thorogood I love and still feel like I'm playing an acoustic. I've never been able to love electrics but this has seriously changed my world view. I know I'm not alone in feeling lost with solid body electrics so I thought I would share the good news.

[Glennwillow]

Yes, I know the feeling. An archtop, for me, particularly through the right amp, just has a really good sound, as rewarding to me as any acoustic. I'm not much of a rocker, but I really like that amplified archtop sound. I ended up buying an Eastman archtop, a very nice, very pretty guitar with a nice reddish sunburst.

- Glenn

[SFCRetired]

I cannot get used to solid body electrics although I have one of the best. The Ibanez hollow body I have is the best playing guitar I have personally ever played. So yes, I understand what you're saying. Completely.

I was looking for a Gretsch and my luthier told me I should check out the Ibanez and boy I'm glad I did.

[grim83]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Yes, I know the feeling. An archtop, for me, particularly through the right amp, just has a really good sound, as rewarding to me as any acoustic. I'm not much of a rocker, but I really like that amplified archtop sound. I ended up buying an Eastman archtop, a very nice, very pretty guitar with a nice reddish sunburst.

- Glenn

I play some slide blues and fingerpick but have yet to find a solid body that I really liked for the way I play.

Originally Posted by SFCRetired

I cannot get used to solid body electrics although I have one of the best. The Ibanez hollow body I have is the best playing guitar I have personally ever played. So yes, I understand what you're saying. Completely.

I was looking for a Gretsch and my luthier told me I should check out the Ibanez and boy I'm glad I did.

I've been eyeing the Ibanez and keep coming back to it I just wish they'd offer a wider nut. Loar has two I'm heavily considering for my next purchase. One has the neck, nut width, and color I want but only comes with humbuckers the other has the p90s I want but not the rest lol. The loar in the shop has a wonderful neck and a sweet sweet sound unplugged. I'm seriously considering ditching everything but my main flat top or two for a decent archtop or two.

[JP McD]

Originally Posted by grim83

Loar has two I'm heavily considering for my next purchase. One has the neck, nut width, and color I want but only comes with humbuckers the other has the p90s I want but not the rest lol. The loar in the shop has a wonderful neck and a sweet sweet sound unplugged. I'm seriously considering ditching everything but my main flat top or two for a decent archtop or two.

It's easy to switch out pickups. Neck, nut width, and color, not so much.

Buy the guitar that suits you and then change out the hardware. That's the beauty of electrics!

[grim83]

Originally Posted by JP McD

It's easy to switch out pickups. Neck, nut width, and color, not so much.

Buy the guitar that suits you and then change out the hardware. That's the beauty of electrics!

I agree except that a p90 and a humbucker have a different route. Although they do make humbucker sized p90s hmmm

[Electar]

I love my old goldtop and my juniors. I also love my '40s Kay/Silvertone $150.00 el cheapo archtop. I play them all good and have fun doing it. Some gigs call for one thing, some call for another. Buy and play as many guitars as you can and give the cheap ones you don't like to your friends.

[Standin]

Wow, I too just bought a 150$ Kay from the "50"s and I love the thing! The most fun for 150$ I've had in a long time. More people should and would buy them if good ones were to be found.. It's just fun to play around with...

[RobertD0]

Archtops, in my opinion after working on and setting up guitars, are just a superior design. But don't tell that to the flat top fans. They'll disagree and it's just cruel to prove them wrong when they feel so strongly about their mistaken opinion.

[Dischord]

Originally Posted by RobertD0

Archtops, in my opinion after working on and setting up guitars, are just a superior design. But don't tell that to the flat top fans. They'll disagree and it's just cruel to prove them wrong when they feel so strongly about their mistaken opinion.

You can't make a statement like that without explaining why you think that. What do you think makes archtops a "superior" design? I'm not disagreeing, but would really love to see more opinions on that thought.

Mark

[Richard Mott]

Hi Mark--I had a couple of thoughts about the statement that archtops are superior to flat-tops. It's probably not something I'd volunteer on a public forum, both because it is almost certainly a subjective claim that sounds like it's being objective, and for that reason is likely to elicit strong, maybe emotional, disagreement. At least if any of the Custom Shop posters stray over the Archtop section! But with those caveats, and speaking just for myself, I find that the best archtops tend be closer to "key neutral" than their flat-top counterparts (i.e., they can more easily easily accommodate, say, playing in B flat), and they tend to have less string-to-string sympathetic vibration, perhaps because of the bridge pushing down on the top rather than pulling up. The price for those qualities, and what drives many flat-top players to distraction, is that archtops seem to be missing bass response entirely, and they tend to hang the player out to dry--if you're not making the sound at any given instant, the guitar probably isn't either. That can be a lonely feeling if you're used to traveling with an army of overtones. I think it was Chet Atkins who, when turning on a little reverb, would refer to it as "adding some talent". Flat-tops can add a LOT of talent, especially when played in DADGAD! But for me the archtop is the more neutral and balanced medium. I want to say highly evolved. But the subjectivity of this view feels obvious, and at the end of the day, what's constitutes the "better" instrument depends on the music being played. A D-18 is almost certainly among the best-suited for bluegrass and a Lowden to Celtic, etc. I have noticed, though, that the finest instruments typically do a wide range of things well--jazz can sound great on, e.g., a Claxton or a Traugott, and finger-style can be beautiful played on a D'Aquisto. John Monteleone's website has a recording of Howard Emerson playing his song "Sit Calm, Leigh" on an archtop, that is lovely (guitar and song both!). It was a revelation to hear. --Richard

[Richard Mott]

Hi Mark--I had a couple of thoughts about the statement that archtops are superior to flat-tops. It's probably not something I'd volunteer on a public forum, both because it is almost certainly a subjective claim that sounds like it's being objective, and for that reason is likely to elicit strong, maybe emotional, disagreement. At least if any of the Custom Shop posters stray over the Archtop section! But with those caveats, and speaking just for myself, I find that the best archtops tend be closer to "key neutral" than their flat-top counterparts (i.e., they can more easily easily accommodate, say, playing in B flat), and they tend to have less string-to-string sympathetic vibration, perhaps because of the bridge pushing down on the top rather than pulling up. The price for those qualities, and what drives many flat-top players to distraction, is that archtops seem to be missing bass response entirely, and they tend to hang the player out to dry--if you're not making the sound at any given instant, the guitar probably isn't either. That can be a lonely feeling if you're used to traveling with an army of overtones. I think it was Chet Atkins who, when turning on a little reverb, would refer to it as "adding some talent". Flat-tops can add a LOT of talent, especially when played in DADGAD! But for me the archtop is the more neutral and balanced medium. I want to say highly evolved. But the subjectivity of this view feels obvious, and at the end of the day, what's constitutes the "better" instrument depends on the music being played. A D-18 is almost certainly among the best-suited for bluegrass and a Lowden to Celtic, etc. I have noticed, though, that the finest instruments typically do a wide range of things well--jazz can sound great on, e.g., a Claxton or a Traugott, and finger-style can be beautiful played on a D'Aquisto. John Monteleone's website has a recording of Howard Emerson playing his song "Sit Calm, Leigh" on an archtop, that is lovely (guitar and song both!). It was a revelation to hear. --Richard

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Richard Mott

...I find that the best archtops tend be closer to "key neutral" than their flat-top counterparts (i.e., they can more easily easily accommodate, say, playing in B flat), and they tend to have less string-to-string sympathetic vibration, perhaps because of the bridge pushing down on the top rather than pulling up. The price for those qualities, and what drives many flat-top players to distraction, is that archtops seem to be missing bass response entirely...

Play a fine old non-cutaway 18-incher - Gibson Super 400/300, Epiphone Emperor/Deluxe (the latter were available with an 18" body for a short time around 1949-50), D'Angelico, Stromberg - and I suspect you'll feel differently. It's the simple physics of the instrument: you're operating in a range similar to that of the cello - which has no problem filling a concert hall with its bass response - and if you're expecting comparable sonics you'll need a comparably-sized tone chamber. FWIW I consider 18" archtops to be the ultimate guitar - and had the all-but-forgotten "plectrum classical" school of playing that flourished between the wars taken root in so-called "serious" music circles they might well be the accepted concert instrument, what with their natural acoustic projection, clarity of articulation, evenness of tone, and string-to-string balance...

[Richard Mott]

Hi Steve--Actually, I totally agree and need no convincing! I meant to say that archtops seem not to have bass when players compare them to flattops. I once played an 18" D'Aquisto Centura that had lush, gorgeous bass. I find them more balanced, and that the bass of flattops can often feel "exaggerated" and boomy in comparison.

[RobertD0]

Originally Posted by Dischord

You can't make a statement like that without explaining why you think that. What do you think makes archtops a "superior" design? I'm not disagreeing, but would really love to see more opinions on that thought.

Mark

Well, superior design elements such as the floating, adjustable bridge. Intonation and string height are easily adjusted. On a flat top you'd have to remove the strings and file the saddle for height and then file again to adjust intonation for each string.