ToneDexter Thread

[AeroUSA]

Yes the TD is very true to the guitar. My OM sounds a like a beautiful old jazz guitar or Tommy Emmanuels Maton 808 size.

Do you think a Jumbo would be good? The OM Seems to overdrive when strummed really hard. Or is that the K&K?!

Maybe I need a dread with a undersaddle pickup into ToneDexter... can't wait to try it!

[James May]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

...
The OM Seems to overdrive when strummed really hard. Or is that the K&K?!
...

I too have an OM and I also get the sense that the guitar itself breaks up earlier than others I own, when played hard. I'm fairly certain it's not the KK because I hear it acoustically.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Yes, I've found for my flatpicking style, either on a Martin with Onboard Aura or when using an Aura pedal, I like is the Aura Image generated from a ribbon mic as it just seems warmer and fuller. When flesh-and-nail fingerpicking, I might switch to a Neumann U47 or U87 Aura Image. I recall rmyAddison also remarking in response to one of my comments that he, too, tended to favor the Ribbon-mic Aura Image.

Its interesting that you prefer different sound images for different playing styles. I suspect that some ToneDexter users will also be creating multiple WaveMaps to accommodate multiple playing styles.

From a soundman's perspective, I'd say that aggressive strummers with UST-equipped guitars will probably benefit the most from ToneDexter. On the other hand, any player who prefers the feel and "softer" attack of an SBT or internal mic system will appreciate the added feedback resistance with ToneDexter.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I am surprised some of you guys are not more excited over this pedal. For me it's everything that the aura was supposed to be. It's AMAZING.

More than 2000 reads... People are following, speachless. I think we need more AGF members testimony with samples with different guitars and pickups. Then people will start to exchange about their experience.

You probably feel like I did with my first IR thread. I wrote so many posts alone. People were reading but not posting.

Thanks again for your posts, the buzz will grow with the number of AGF members receiving their Tonedexters. We need at least samples with standard Martin D-28, D-18, HD-28, Taylor ES2, Gibson J-45, Takamine...

The problem is that it would benefit the most to people with entry-level quacky pickups. But for those people 399$ is close to the price of their guitar.

Cuki

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

More than 2000 reads... People are following, speachless. I think we need more AGF members testimony with samples with different guitars and pickups. Then people will start to exchange about their experience.

You probably feel like I did with my first IR thread. I wrote so many posts alone. People were reading but not posting.

Thanks again for your posts, the buzz will grow with the number of AGF members receiving their Tonedexters. We need at least samples with standard Martin D-28, D-18, HD-28, Taylor ES2, Gibson J-45, Takamine...

The problem is that it would benefit the most to people with entry-level quacky pickups. But for those people 399$ is close to the price of their guitar.

Cuki

Cuki, I disagree. I had a K&K in an OM42. I didn't like the tone at all. I could see the potential but there were some frequencies I couldn't dial out. And this isn't just another preamp, it's recreating the sound of a mic which many pedals do not do. I feel like more expensive guitars will benefit more than cheap ones because we finally get to hear the mic version of he guitar sound rather than just the piezo pickup..

[AeroUSA]

Here is a short clip from today's gig. It's just recorded with my iPhone 7 camera and mic but I loop thr chords so you are not hearing the guitar through the camera mic, just the ToneDexter sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Yu6UUpVYo

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Cuki, I disagree. I had a K&K in an OM42. I didn't like the tone at all. I could see the potential but there were some frequencies I couldn't dial out. And this isn't just another preamp, it's recreating the sound of a mic which many pedals do not do. I feel like more expensive guitars will benefit more than cheap ones because we finally get to hear the mic version of he guitar sound rather than just the piezo pickup..

OK you've got a point.

And this isn't just another preamp, it's recreating the sound of a mic which many pedals do not do.

I totally agree with you on that point also however it's more complex than that.

Few months ago, when I started my IR experiments, I really felt I was sitting on somekind of gold mine and wanted absolutely to share with the community. I offered many people on AGF to make IR for free because I was so excited about the IR thing. But my AGF experience opened my eyes on few things:

There are 3 kinds of people that posts in the amplification section:
a) Unexperienced people who try to determine what pickup they want.
b) Experienced people who are dreaming of achieving the "perfect" sound. (Being natural and "acoustic" or not)
c) The experienced "realistic" people who knows exactly what they want and what the audience needs to hear from them.

The (a) people may be sensible to the IR strategy but may not realize the benefit compared to let's say a LR baggs Venue DI or Fishman platinum.

Part of the (b) people who want to get a sound "as close as possible" to their guitar maybe interested if they can afford it (you need also to pay for a decent mic). However another part who uses for example tons of delay, reverb, modulation etc... may not be interested.

The (c) people have already invested in much equipement including dual sources, TA Amulet, Dazzo pickups, expensive preamps... I can tell you, if you have a TA Amulet, with a DPA mic and a Grace Audio Felix like Doug Young... Well you don't really need a Tonedexter. Because the gain in "sound" is not worth. That's my very personal opinion. For those people, Tonedexter will always be a temptation but many will wait for further reviews and demos or even wait for the second-hand market.

I have great hope that Tonedexter is going to be the "Kemper" acoustic equivalent but they need reviews in media like "Acoustic Guitar Magazine" or "Guitarist" and "Youtube videos" of people making IR live and compare with different configuration to win the market.

They also need real distribution. Here in Europe, many people still buy in shops and trust their "Mom & Pa" shop dealer. The local guitar dealer probably sold more "Kempers" in my home town than the internet forum did. I mean, the internet "teases" but the guy really sells.

It would be funny to run a survey to know how many AGF people "would"/"will" buy a Tonedexter. I'd say maximum 50 maybe a 100.

[buzzardwhiskey]

Here's a fun experiment...

I trained the ToneDexter using four different mics and then recorded an example using each.

There is no EQ anywhere and I've got the character knob "all the way clockwise" to its most mic-like setting.

So here they are (bypass, Shure SM7b w/ Cloudlifter, Shure SM57, AKG EB535c, Miktek PM5):

[AeroUSA]

Cuki, what do you think of the Kemper? Do you own one? The other problem is that people need to own a mic in order to make the image map and this may discourage some people.

It's early days though and all I know if that I have tried a lot of high end guitars and pickups and I'm loving the TD and that's why I am telling as many people as I can about it.

[AeroUSA]

Who is going to try a Neumann KM184 first?!

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

From what I can gather, mic placement for training the ToneDexter is crucial to generating the tone a player wants to hear in their amplified sound.
...

I suspect there is much more to do with it than mic placement. Other factors would include (i) the mic's frequency response (e.g., flat, not flat), (ii) the mic's off-axis frequency response, (iii) the mic's proximity effect if any (if not a true pressure omni capsule), (iv) the mic's self noise, (v) the room in which the sample is taken (treated, not treated, etc.) and (vi) the strings and their condition.

[James May]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

I suspect there is much more to do with it than mic placement. Other factors would include (i) the mic's frequency response (e.g., flat, not flat), (ii) the mic's off-axis frequency response, (iii) the mic's proximity effect if any (if not a true pressure omni capsule), (iv) the mic's self noise, (v) the room in which the sample is taken (treated, not treated, etc.) and (vi) the strings and their condition.

Great discussion so far.

(iv, v, and vi) make little or no difference to how ToneDexter trains. The others certainly do.

[midwinter]

Glad I picked one up recently.....

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Who is going to try a Neumann KM184 first?!

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Cuki, what do you think of the Kemper? Do you own one? The other problem is that people need to own a mic in order to make the image map and this may discourage some people.

It's early days though and all I know if that I have tried a lot of high end guitars and pickups and I'm loving the TD and that's why I am telling as many people as I can about it.

The shop dealer in my hometown is a great advocate of the kemper. So I could try it there many times. He was more the boutique amp kind of guy. He only kept a cornford. I think it's great. It does not work on the same principle as the tonedexter because kemper is all about nonlinearity (tube amp).

Thanks Buzzardwhiskey and Aerousa for helping us appreciate the tonedexter.

You can really hear tone difference between the mics. In this specific case I wish Tonedexter could have a blend button. I like bass and I miss somehow the super heavy bass of the K&K... However you can add bass to taste with the EQ and in LIVE situation you'd probably keep it like that to avoid muddiness.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

Here's a fun experiment...

I trained the ToneDexter using four different mics and then recorded an example using each.

There is no EQ anywhere and I've got the character knob "all the way clockwise" to its most mic-like setting.

So here they are (bypass, Shure SM7b w/ Cloudlifter, Shure SM57, AKG EB535c, Miktek PM5):

Thanks for the comparison of ToneDexter results derived from using different training mics, David. Unfortunately for me, my ears preferred the results derived from using the pricey MikTek mic for WaveMap training. Albeit, the SM57 sample was respectable enough for an inexpensive start until a better mic could be bought, begged or borrowed.