Talk about Brazilian Rosewood

[Rinaz]

So I noticed that most guitar with Brazilian rosewood will most likely louder and offer some more of everything on a guitar compare to Indian rosewood unless you got lucky and have a master grade indian rosewood on the guitar. The look of Brazilian rosewood just really stands out and it sounds so powerful. I noticed that on high end guitars like santa cruz, martin d45 with Brazilian rosewood usually have very straight grains of wood, sometime it looks like indian rosewood, just maybe a bit darker color.

Does it affect the sound in any way or it’s just only the look? I know every guitar sounds differently but I just wanted to know if the wood grade will change the sound for Brazilian rosewood. I’ve heard that AAA or even AAAA Brazilian rosewood nowadays was only A, AA or even worse than before. And if you are unlucky you’ll get a bad one that doesnt even sound as good as indian rosewood. Is it true? Do the manufacturers, luthiers, or companies choose good ones before building a guitar?


I’m saving up for my future high end guitar and it’s gonna be the rosewood. Im not really a wood expert so if there are options besides Brazilian rosewood please suggest that to me. I’d love to hear

[Dbone]

I personally think Brazilian rosewood is way overhyped...You are paying an insane premium for something that is rare, not necessarily better. If you are okay with that carry on.

Having said this, I get the appeal...Makes for a theoretically more special guitar. If money is not a concern and it is important to ya I say go for it.

I’ll leave it there. I’m not a Brazilian expert, nor am I interested in it. I check out of most things that do not have a value for money proposition associated with them.

[Rinaz]

Originally Posted by Dbone

I personally think Brazilian rosewood is way overhyped...You are paying an insane premium for something that is rare, not necessarily better. If you are okay with that carry on.

Having said this, I get the appeal...Makes for a theoretically more special guitar. If money is not a concern and it is important to ya I say go for it.

I’ll leave it there. I’m not a Brazilian expert, nor am I interested in it. I check out of most things that do not have a value for money proposition associated with them.

Thanks for the concern but I will work extra hours for it and I may consider buying a used guitar as it’s cheaper. I find that 3-4k could get me a nice used one. It sounds amazing that I couldn’t resist. So yolo...

[John5]

You sound like someone who wants the best, so you should only buy a Brazilian Rosewood Martin guitar, which I think you can only get through their custom shop. If you buy any other brand, such as a Taylor with Brazilian Rosewood, or Ervin Somogyi guitar with Brazilian Rosewood, you will always wish you had a Martin with Brazilian Rosewood. Make sure you tell the Martin custom shop you want their AAAA grade Brazilian Rosewood so you don't end up with their A grade Brazilian Rosewood, which won't sound as good (look up D-45 versus HD-28 threads on this forum, most people will agree that there is a clear difference in tone due to the higher grade of woods used on the higher end models).

[Wade Hampton]

Rinaz, try before you buy. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are plenty of mediocre-sounding Brazilian rosewood guitars out there. Yes, when it's good it can be magnificent, but there's nothing guaranteed about it.

I've owned several Brazilian rosewood instruments over the years, only one of which I wish I still owned. The rest were nothing to get excited about.

So the idea that maybe those people who are less than thrilled with Brazilian rosewood might be jealous simply does not apply in my case. I have plenty of experience with it, and there are a number of other tonewoods that I like better.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Dustinfurlow]

Okay, I’ll bite...I have heard some Brazilian guitars that completely changed my perspective of how great a guitar can sound and conversely have played Brazilian guitars that made me go “I would never spend x,xxx for that upgrade if ______(wood) is only xxx extra and gets a similar result.

But as previously Stated, if you want the best And have the dough then by all means get the Lamborghini!

[Bear Davis]

I currently have multiple BRW guitars, have sold quite a few, and have played well over 100.

That being said, BRW does not mean your guitar will be better... The only guarantee of BRW on a blind buy is that it will be more expensive. Like all other guitars there are good ones, bad ones, and AMAZING ones. The Amazing BRW guitars I have played I can count on one hand.

BRW is not "louder" than EIR. The top wood, bracing, scale and guitar shape/size will be the big factors in volume.

If I was going to make a recommendation it would just be to buy used.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

So I noticed that most guitar with Brazilian rosewood will most likely louder and offer some more of everything on a guitar compare to Indian rosewood unless you got lucky and have a master grade indian rosewood on the guitar. The look of Brazilian rosewood just really stands out and it sounds so powerful. I noticed that on high end guitars like santa cruz, martin d45 with Brazilian rosewood usually have very straight grains of wood, sometime it looks like indian rosewood, just maybe a bit darker color.

Does it affect the sound in any way or it’s just only the look? I know every guitar sounds differently but I just wanted to know if the wood grade will change the sound for Brazilian rosewood. I’ve heard that AAA or even AAAA Brazilian rosewood nowadays was only A, AA or even worse than before. And if you are unlucky you’ll get a bad one that doesnt even sound as good as indian rosewood. Is it true? Do the manufacturers, luthiers, or companies choose good ones before building a guitar?


I’m saving up for my future high end guitar and it’s gonna be the rosewood. Im not really a wood expert so if there are options besides Brazilian rosewood please suggest that to me. I’d love to hear

Hi Rinaz,
The "magic" of BRW is because when the American builders got going Brazilian was conveniently close at hand and easy to source.
It was over used, and over harvested and when Brazil realised it was a valuable commodity (for furniture etc,) they ruled that they would cut it, which made much unusable for guitars etc.
it is now on Cites listed in appendix 1, which makes it endangered and , personally I wouldn't own it, any more than I'd own African elephant ivory, tortoiseshell, or blood diamonds.

When Martin changed to East Indian Rosewood - they had some fantastically beautiful pieces.
Frankly BRW can be really boring to look at and EIR can be delightful.

Most BRW backed guitars sound good because they are old, and/or made by the most skilled luthiers.

BRW grading is about aesthetics only - not sonic qualities and much of the prettier looking sets are cut from stumpwood and lacks the sonic qualities of cuts from older, larger trunks.

EIR is not endangered and is grown as shade trees for tea plantations and in plantations of their own.

There is also Madagascar rosewood but it is overexploited and mostly from dubious sources. I will not consider it.

I suggest that you read up on BRW and alternatives.

[colins]

The best part of owning a high end guitar or even having a custom build is to be able to play something that meets your tonal requirements and playing style. There is huge variety in the way that individual luthiers and small shops build their instruments and your primary goal in selecting one is to select a luthier that builds guitars matched to your preferences. After you have selected your ideal luthier you can start to think about woods. The woods provide nuance to the instrument while the luthier provides the substance.

On a good guitar, BRW can look and sound great. But it will not save a guitar if that guitar is badly built in the first place. If I had the choice of an EIR guitar by a great builder or a BRW guitar by a mediocre builder I would choose the EIR one without hesitation.

As others have said, BRW is CITES appendix 1, which makes any form of international travel incredibly difficult, particularly as much of the BRW with luthiers predates the need for paper work.

As to alternatives, I have a Madagascan rosewood guitar from a builder who sourced the wood in a sustainable way and it sounds fantastic. African blackwood (actually a rosewood) is another amazing wood.

But once you have selected a builder, talk with them about what you want the guitar to do and with their experience they may steer you towards an interesting wood you had not even thought of. Fancy some spalted manchinga?! https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=563349

[SkipII]

To me -- to me, okay? -- clamoring for some remaining stock of BRW is akin to seeking out elephant ivory that was "harvested" before its ban. A BRW tree is no less a part of our ecosystem than any elephant or any other endangered species of flora or fauna. Even the remaining stocks are artifacts of an era where such things did not matter. The price premium now reflects its rarity, not its unique qualities.

Yes, old-growth BRW, properly quarter-sawn in the hand of a good factory or luthier back in the 40s-60s had a great sound, but some of that tone also evolved over time, as would many other woods.

I love how we are experimenting with other woods and finding a fuller range of tones that are out there, while exercising sustainable forestry practices.

I encourage you to explore those fuller options rather than chase the exotica of BRW.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by colins

The best part of owning a high end guitar or even having a custom build is to be able to play something that meets your tonal requirements and playing style. There is huge variety in the way that individual luthiers and small shops build their instruments and your primary goal in selecting one is to select a luthier that builds guitars matched to your preferences. After you have selected your ideal luthier you can start to think about woods. The woods provide nuance to the instrument while the luthier provides the substance.

On a good guitar, BRW can look and sound great. But it will not save a guitar if that guitar is badly built in the first place. If I had the choice of an EIR guitar by a great builder or a BRW guitar by a mediocre builder I would choose the EIR one without hesitation.

As others have said, BRW is CITES appendix 1, which makes any form of international travel incredibly difficult, particularly as much of the BRW with luthiers predates the need for paper work.
...
But once you have selected a builder, talk with them about what you want the guitar to do and with their experience they may steer you towards an interesting wood you had not even thought of. ...

This is good advice - if you are planning new by an individual builder. The "grades" of wood, being focused on aesthetics, matter little and are not comparable between builders. I have found no correlation between grade and tone.

You ask about substitutes, African Blackwood, Madagascar and Indian Rosewood have been mentioned. To this list you can add Wenge, Locust, Osage Orange, Cocobolo, and some others. Some will say there is NO substitute for BRW.

My best advice is to play as many as you can, along with some of the substitute woods and see what you think. I know this is not easy for anyone and is very difficult for most of us. If you are having one built, get a luthier in whom you can trust and have complete confidence in and make sure he knows exactly what you are looking for. This is not easy either. When you achieve this, listen carefully to his recommendations.

Or you can buy used.

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

Thanks for the concern but I will work extra hours for it and I may consider buying a used guitar as it’s cheaper. I find that 3-4k could get me a nice used one. It sounds amazing that I couldn’t resist. So yolo...

I gave you my thoughts on it. Asked and answered. I don’t have much “concern” about it one way or the other. Good luck. Used sounds like a great idea.

[s2y]

I have 2 BRW acoustics and a fretless bass with a BRW fingerboard. These particular instruments exceed all hype.

[llew]

I own one Brazilian dread. No need for another. I do think it's a little cleaner sounding than a similar EIR dread. (both with Adi tops) Is it worth the upcharge? Only the prospective buyer can decide that. But the truth is I'm a mahogany guy at heart...

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by Dustinfurlow

Okay, I’ll bite...I have heard some Brazilian guitars that completely changed my perspective of how great a guitar can sound and conversely have played Brazilian guitars that made me go “I would never spend x,xxx for that upgrade if ______(wood) is only xxx extra and gets a similar result.

But as previously Stated, if you want the best And have the dough then by all means get the Lamborghini!

Yup, and you’ve probably played an Indian rosewood or other tone wood that blew or didn’t blow your mind. As many have stated around here at nauseam, it is not necessarily the concept of some “holy grail” tone wood that will blow a purchaser’s mind. It will be a number of factors that come together to do that. A particular tone wood may be a factor in that. This is what I had in mind when responding above.