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  #61  
Old 11-26-2016, 12:55 PM
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It was dead flat at first, but you can see how over time and humidity swings and such, it is shrinking to sink into the pores a bit and follow the winter lines in the top...
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  #62  
Old 11-26-2016, 01:54 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
I found epoxy to be the easiest porefill (so far) and it still sucks to do.

If you want to use a waterborne, try the KTM-SV. Went on just as easily as the 9, with none of the bad side effects. 6 yrs later it's still shrinking, like a nitro...
maybe i'm searching in the wrong way, but I can't find where to buy the KTM-SV. Any suggestions?
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  #63  
Old 11-26-2016, 02:51 PM
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No sorry. Just tried searching it too. Doesn't look good...
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  #64  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:06 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by SnowManSnow View Post
so... in your opinion.. what are the best options for a good gloss if one doesn't set up an HVLP area?
If you mean that you don't want to set up spray equipment, there are other options, such as brush, wipe and "French polish".

If you mean that you want to setup an area to use conventional HPLV spray equipment (e.g. compressor), if you don't already have the equipment, AND you want to spray, my advice is to go with HVLP.

In my experience, it is probably best to match the level of technology with one's needs and volume of work. For example, don't try to setup an industrial process for home/small shop/occasional use.

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it is quite confusing for a noob like myself to know what is good and what is a waste of time and money. Seems everyone has favorites, which makes sense. One thing I have learned strait away is that there are a LOT of ways to do things, and everyone has their favorite.
That is true. Usually, one arrives at one's favorites by trial and error. I have found that some things that work well for others haven't worked very well for me in my shop and vice versa.

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I do plan on making more guitars, but I DON'T plan on any sort of volume, id quickly run out of room in my man cave haha.
Then I'd suggest keeping the finishing process as simple as possible while still achieving your desired result. That seems obvious, but the implication isn't necessarily.

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I have considered a brush on option also, but I like the idea of spraying because it seems i would be able to get much thinner coats on.
In general, spraying doesn't ensure that one has a thinner final film thickness. If you really want thin, go French polish/shellac.

A mirror, high-gloss finish isn't an easy thing to achieve. It involves a number of steps and a number of materials. To achieve that finish takes some experimenting with materials and application methods. For example, spraying a finish isn't just pulling a spray gun trigger. The viscosity of the material being sprayed matters, as does the temperature and humidity of the environment. The right size "tip" needs to be used for the viscosity and type of material being sprayed. The right spray pattern and diameter is necessary, as is the ratio of air to finish. Generally, getting that stuff right is research, experience and trial and error.

Achieving such a finish with a brush isn't just dipping the brush in finish and "painting" it on. One must have a brush with the right type of bristle and bristle configuration for the material one is applying. One must have a certain amount of technique so that the brush marks (mostly) disappear and the finish doesn't run during application. One must have the right viscosity, and so on.

Achieving such a finish with a pad isn't just dipping the pad in finish and wiping the finish on the work. And so on.

There isn't a perfect finish and obtaining "perfect" results takes some "fiddling" with the variables to achieve it, generally, regardless of the finish material or its method of application. (A wiped on oil finish is pretty easy, but won't give you a mirror, high gloss finish.)

So, in short, my advice is to determine what sort of application methods you are "up for" - willing to invest in and learn to do. Nearly any that you choose will involve some experimentation with material and application technique to get right. Some types of finishes and application techniques require a LOT more equipment than others, even though very similar results can be achieved with each of them.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 11-26-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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  #65  
Old 11-27-2016, 07:21 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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wow.
so .. is it frowned upon to use the spray nitro cans from stewmac? They do get good reviews.

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...r_Lacquer.html

and

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ator_Mask.html

at this point I'm just wondering how I'm gonna get this thing finished at all haha
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  #66  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:13 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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From my perspective, it isn't a question of whether or not a method is "frowned upon" or not: it is a question of whether or not it will achieve the desired result.

Is it possible to achieve a "quality" mirror gloss finish with a spray can? Sure.

Is it easier to achieve with a spray can than dedicated spray equipment? Maybe. The spray can eliminates the finisher's ability to control some variables that are involved in the application. That makes it "easier" since there are fewer things for the finisher to have to control. However, not being able to control some important aspects of the application can also make it more difficult, or diminish the quality of the result.

Regardless, the finisher still needs to prepare the pre-finished surface to be "perfect", the pores still need to be filled, the finish needs to be dead-level and then buffed. Those aspects don't change regardless of using a spray can versus dedicated equipment. Using a spray can might be a good choice for a first attempt since it eliminates some aspects of the application itself.

Keep in mind, depending upon the finishing material in the can, it is still flammable and requires adequate ventilation and respiratory protection.
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  #67  
Old 11-29-2016, 02:42 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Thanks Charles. Perhaps frowned upon was the wrong term. I just didn't want to do something that was obviously NOT going to result in a good finish.
Right now the limiting factor is me and my skill.although I of course want a good instrument at the end this process is VERY much a learning process for me...
Learning to use the correct tools/ learning what I need and don't need/ beginning to develop a process of my own.
I also will say again that I realize there is a great deal of "developed skill" involved in skillfully building an instrument and I respect those of you who have developed those skills.
I never want to come across that something is easy or that I'll be able to produce a pro instrument right away. I'm just eager, and sometimes that doesn't come across correctly on text
At any rate: I really appreciate all the pro help that is coming from this thread!




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  #68  
Old 11-29-2016, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
, now that buyers/players don't demand that the only acceptable finish is a mirror gloss lacquer,
Oh, you think so, Charles, do you?

Personally, I want a finish that will cause retinal damage to the whole of the front row when the lights shine just so ...
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  #69  
Old 11-29-2016, 03:54 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Oh, you think so, Charles, do you?

Personally, I want a finish that will cause retinal damage to the whole of the front row when the lights shine just so ...
I gather that it is now perfectly acceptable to have a mirror gloss finish made from UV cured polyester that is applied by robots with no humans present.
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  #70  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:40 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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I gather that it is now perfectly acceptable to have a mirror gloss finish made from UV cured polyester that is applied by robots with no humans present.
If you can afford it.
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  #71  
Old 11-29-2016, 06:47 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Oh, you think so, Charles, do you?
I stand corrected: many people no longer demand a high-gloss mirror finish. Some even prefer a matte or low-gloss finish.

In the 1970's, for example, one couldn't give someone a guitar that didn't have a high-gloss finish. Times have changed.
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  #72  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:04 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
I stand corrected: many people no longer demand a high-gloss mirror finish. Some even prefer a matte or low-gloss finish.

In the 1970's, for example, one couldn't give someone a guitar that didn't have a high-gloss finish. Times have changed.
Yep, it is now possible to give them away.
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  #73  
Old 11-30-2016, 05:38 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
Yep, it is now possible to give them away.

Thank God for that. Storage of all those not-high-gloss guitars that were pilling up since the '70's had become overwhelming. Finally, the flood gates have been opened.
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  #74  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:27 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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...yet so many people with satin finish guitars choose to void their warranties and polish their satin guitars.

Odd that nobody really pushed the OP to do a French polish. All this talk of spraying and buffing seems so "against the grain" of building a guitar by hand.</tongue in cheek>
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  #75  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:53 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by kwakatak View Post
...yet so many people with satin finish guitars choose to void their warranties and polish their satin guitars.
And, many people who "scuff-up" their finishes - or remove them altogether, on necks - to make them satin.

Quote:
Odd that nobody really pushed the OP to do a French polish. All this talk of spraying and buffing seems so "against the grain" of building a guitar by hand.</tongue in cheek>
French Polish was suggested, as was a brushed finish. Pros and cons to every finish and application method.
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