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  #61  
Old 11-18-2014, 08:35 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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So I decided to make new necks for the other three and picked up some 3/4" x 8" mahogany, well at least it is suppose to be it. I laminated three pieces together and glued on the headstock then started on the tenon. Boy this stuff is light, not even all that hard. Instead of setting up to do the tenon with the jig and a router I decided to just rough it out and do it by hand. I used a razor saw from my RC airplane days, I think I cut harder spruce. Oh well I bought it and might as well make the best of it.



Got this far and then it occurs to me, I don't have truss rods for them, the ones I have are too long for this scale. I made the one for the first guitar just to see if I could do it, had enough of that and looked up a Canadian seller that is pretty quick to ship. They have some that are just a bit too long. Going to have to make the neck a little longer. Good thing I only cut out the one in case some things went amiss. Now what am I going to do with this neck?
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  #62  
Old 11-19-2014, 01:05 PM
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To see is doing the tonerite thing would help out the sunburst guitar I stuck an aquarium air pump on the strings at the bridge. I let it run for a few days and then I did some tap testing of the top with a PC spectrum analyzer. The guitar top resonance was 203 Hz before doing it,



and 211 Hz after. Now whether the change was due to vibrating the top or not I am not sure. I did set up the guitar the same way both times, I would feel more confidant if I tested it before and left it in the same position the whole time till the second test. I will have to redo the test a number of times on different new guitars before I can say one way or the other. I would have to set up a computer in another room though as vibrating the top sounds annoying after a short period of time.
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  #63  
Old 11-24-2014, 03:22 PM
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So we had a couple days where the temperature was just below freezing so I took advantage of it and put a new blade and set up the used bandsaw I picked up. The bad news, something funny is going on with the top wheel and I won't be sawing anything else for a while. Well at least out in the garage, temperature dropped again and I can not see me tearing it apart in the cold. Besides, I have my little bandsaw in the basement.

The good news, I cut up enough walnut for a few guitars and sanded it down today. It is flatsawn, not great but hard to find quartered wood around here. So not much of a bookmatch but might not be too bad looking.



These a little more so.



Thinking of using the selangan batu necks with these. Not sure what I will be doing with the pine bodies now. I was going to give two of them to my nephew and my niece's husband. But these walnut look interesting. And it is not like I need three of them. Not sure what to use for binding yet. I hope the wood stays this silver/grey color, I kind of like it.

Well my truss rods came in the mail today. Maybe I will make up a neck for the pine boxes and see what they sound like. Then I can decide what I want to do.


Mooved around the wood and thought the top one might look better like this.


Last edited by printer2; 11-24-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-28-2014, 10:52 AM
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Well this is different. Had someone ask if they can buy my pine guitars so they can use them as an art platform. Just want me to put pseudo-necks on them and leave them unfinished. Even though I am a little attached to them I always saw them as stepping stones in my guitar making path. What I wanted to learn from them seems irrelevant since I bought the Gore/Gilet books on guitar building.

I can see building a guitar to try out some of the concepts in the books and see how much altering parameters will give you. Makes more sense working with hardwoods and tops that we use to make our guitars. Still have more to read up on for that and to develop some testing methods. I still have the building bug in me though. Maybe a walnut guitar? It may not be as responsive a guitar as I could make once I fully absorb the books but still could be fun to play. But first I have to make some necks. Maybe pick up some 2 x 4's. Think I have some crappy tuners to use. Need to build some bridges also.
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  #65  
Old 11-29-2014, 09:12 PM
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So pretty close to finished one of the necks for the bodies to be sacrificed for artistic advancement. Actually they are going to be donated to some charity raffles. Almost takes as long to do a pretend neck as a real one. Picked up a sad looking 2 x 8 x 10', the only redeeming property was that it had some good sized clear sections with no knots. First up scarf joint.



Cut the majority of the scrap off with the bandsaw. I need to get a smaller blade than the 1/2" I have. I did not bother to router out the tenon joint and cut it with a coping saw, did the next one with a hack saw as it was easier. The fretboards are going to be some sugar pine that I got off a pallet, still has the staple holes in it.



Oops, a little too aggressive with the chisel, some glue and a clamp and back in business.



Roughed out the shape.



Seems to fit well enough.



Chisel and rasp, start on it with the sandpaper.



Walnut scraps for the front and back plate. Think a buddy has some junk tuners, need to do some frets and a bridge. Then onto the next one.

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  #66  
Old 11-30-2014, 01:49 AM
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Great project, you're much more diligent than I am.
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  #67  
Old 11-30-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewpartrick View Post
Great project, you're much more diligent than I am.
You mean to say I talk myself into something and then have to follow through on it? Or I just fool myself and say it won't be all trhat much work.

Well since I am not too happy about the sound pine top guitar I made, should have thinned the top more, I am using the neck on my next guitar and made another one for it.



The amount of work to do these necks is not all that much less than real necks. Maybe take more care getting all the dimensions right and doing a truss rod slot. I might just finish the two cedar top ones. But they will be put on the back burner as I want to start the walnut guitar.
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  #68  
Old 12-02-2014, 03:07 PM
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Got the two done and delivered, decided to finish the other two as working guitars. The second pine top one sounded like it might have sounded alright with me tapping the top after I put the bridge on. But first things first.

The new spindle sander I have dad a problem with the rubber sanding drum not holding the abrasive roll and it kept slipping down. Did not think too much of it since I could at least get my part sanded using the top of the roll. Then the whole thing pukes. Took it apart and it seems the drum cut its way through the plastic that holds the top bearing.





So I need to make a replacement bearing housing. Was hoping to be smelling fresh baked walnut in my side bender, this may take a day or two to straighten out.
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  #69  
Old 12-02-2014, 08:18 PM
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Reused the center of the bearing housing, made a bigger version of the black disc with the center and four mounting holes. This sits on the underside of the bearing housing and holds in the bearing. Cut some 1/16" steel, cut the same size hole and screw holes as the bearing retainer disc. Mounted the bearing housing onto the new steel plate and mounted that onto a wood block. The tricky part was measuring everything and determining where the parts sat, mainly how far down the shaft the bearing sits.

Bolted it all up, stuck it in the vice and applied juice from a safe distance away. Spun up with no issues. I want to see if I can do more about dust control since I have it apart but that is for tomorrow. I had enough for tonight.

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  #70  
Old 12-05-2014, 01:02 AM
Dan Bombliss Dan Bombliss is offline
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Hey Printer,

Just prowling here, read through this thread. I had a few cents to chime in, which you are more than welcome to disregard.

First off, when I started off, you had said you doubled up the sides on the outside of the kerfing to solidify them. I would like to mention that not only isn't it necessary, but it's double weight that doesn't need to be there. Once the plates are glued on the, the sides are extremely rigid, to the point where you could stand on them (no joke). I would just go with a single side, kerf it, and add side braces if you want to avoid future side cracks from spreading.

I think you had mentioned something about doubling up the backs that sounded to "thuddy" to get them to be more "ringy" sounding (I'm paraphrasing). Plates alot of times, especially the uncommon ones as popular tonewoods got hype for a reason, don't sound like much when you tap on them with out braces. Some say plates should sound like spring steel when you tap on it prior to bracing. When voicing, you find the thickness it should be by how the deflection feels along with how it sounds. The brilliant sounds come out with bracing, so if you're doubling up the thickness of the tops/backs trying to advance that brilliant sound, you're over bracing the instruments. Imagine what it sounds like to tap on a 1" piece of solid mahogany vs a .100" piece of mahogany. The 1" piece is going to have a high pitch sort of ring to it, and the .100" isn't going to sound like much. The thicker the piece, the higher of a ringing sound it will make. You'll want to listen for resonance, and responsiveness.

Last thing I'll mention, as I'm not wanting to come off as anything but positive input, are the cocobolo sides. Early on I had learned that not enough moisture will cause very bridle sides, and cracks exactly like the ones you had. The other evils are too thick of sides. Checking the thickness is easy as generally they are .075"-.090" depending on the piece of wood, but also you can easily tell in the deflection. If you hold each end and "bounce" it up and down, they should feel somewhat like spring steel. Maybe bouncing something like 8" or so from top peak to low peak (if that makes sense). There's nothing worse than breaking expensive sides.

If you ever have any questions, you can consider me a resource if you'd like. I'd be happy to help you along when I can. It's nice to see ingenuity in the new comers.

-Dan
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  #71  
Old 12-05-2014, 08:44 AM
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Hey Dan thanks for replying. I appreciate all feedback even if it is someone just saying hi, lets me know people are interested even if it is just to watch a train-wreck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Bombliss View Post
Hey Printer,

Just prowling here, read through this thread. I had a few cents to chime in, which you are more than welcome to disregard.

First off, when I started off, you had said you doubled up the sides on the outside of the kerfing to solidify them. I would like to mention that not only isn't it necessary, but it's double weight that doesn't need to be there. Once the plates are glued on the, the sides are extremely rigid, to the point where you could stand on them (no joke). I would just go with a single side, kerf it, and add side braces if you want to avoid future side cracks from spreading.
While the sides are stiffened up by boxing them in with the top and back our guitars eventually need a neck reset due to the box folding in in itself. I had the extra sides so I decided to double up the sides boxing in the linings. I am now pretty sure you would never have a problem with the sides distorting over the life of a guitar with the sides boxed in. Still have the problem of the top distorting though. I doubt I will box in the sides again as I found one thing that I see as a big drawback. How do you fix the outside side from the inside. (A few more sides and I will have a tongue twister)


Quote:
I think you had mentioned something about doubling up the backs that sounded to "thuddy" to get them to be more "ringy" sounding (I'm paraphrasing). Plates alot of times, especially the uncommon ones as popular tonewoods got hype for a reason, don't sound like much when you tap on them with out braces. Some say plates should sound like spring steel when you tap on it prior to bracing. When voicing, you find the thickness it should be by how the deflection feels along with how it sounds. The brilliant sounds come out with bracing, so if you're doubling up the thickness of the tops/backs trying to advance that brilliant sound, you're over bracing the instruments. Imagine what it sounds like to tap on a 1" piece of solid mahogany vs a .100" piece of mahogany. The 1" piece is going to have a high pitch sort of ring to it, and the .100" isn't going to sound like much. The thicker the piece, the higher of a ringing sound it will make. You'll want to listen for resonance, and responsiveness.
Just comparing that plate to the other four sets (including my first guitar). The one just sounded dead. Not really trying to get more brilliance off the back, but rather to give it extra stiffness and mass. These guitars are built using a softwood and the back on a comparable hardwood built guitar would have both more mass and stiffness. Wanted to see what would happen with the double back but since starting this project I picked up the Gore/Gilet books on guitar making.

Some of the answers I was looking for in building these boxes is spelled out in the book and I have measured each of the bodies by tapping them and recording the spectral response. So having four guitars of this type kicking around would do little more than collect dust I decided to donate two for an art project and complete the two cedar ones as I felt they had the most promise.

Quote:
Last thing I'll mention, as I'm not wanting to come off as anything but positive input, are the cocobolo sides. Early on I had learned that not enough moisture will cause very bridle sides, and cracks exactly like the ones you had. The other evils are too thick of sides. Checking the thickness is easy as generally they are .075"-.090" depending on the piece of wood, but also you can easily tell in the deflection. If you hold each end and "bounce" it up and down, they should feel somewhat like spring steel. Maybe bouncing something like 8" or so from top peak to low peak (if that makes sense). There's nothing worse than breaking expensive sides.

If you ever have any questions, you can consider me a resource if you'd like. I'd be happy to help you along when I can. It's nice to see ingenuity in the new comers.

-Dan
Yeah, I wish I knew what I know now before trying to bend the sides. I asked for advice but did not get much in the way of instruction. While the wood did not really cost me all that much it would have been nice to have a all cocobolo guitar. I have some padauk that I will use for the sides for the back. The wood was really intended to be used for rosettes but I thought I might just squeeze a guitar out of them. I bent the sides at 0.085" and realize I probably should have taken them down to 0.070".

Chalk it up to experience, it has caused me to look at guitar sets differently. The cracks I had were in the flat sawn areas and I know now to avoid brittle wood with it. That being said I am starting on a walnut guitar with flat sawn sides. Bought the wood before I knew better, mind you walnut is not suppose to be a difficult wood to work with so we will see what will happen. I plan on building with this wood I resawed more to get other unforeseen mistakes out of the way and eventually build with the different wood sets I bought. I am sure I will come up with other questions that need answers so feel free to answer or comment when you see something you should be done better. While I do learn much from my mistakes I would rather not do the obvious ones.
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  #72  
Old 12-05-2014, 11:25 AM
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Did a little warm up on my pipe before doing the walnut. Some sides for a 19" scale guitar with a 11" lower bout. I am using the same form as my other little guitars but will just narrow the sides to fit the body. Just a little something that I can leave in my locker at work and pull out on my breaks. Not sure if it will be steel of nylon yet.

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  #73  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:42 PM
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Didn't like the 'mahogany' that I picked up, I have some spruce that is harder. Even some fir, which I said I would not be making a neck with again. Well, I am not making on I am making two. Doing quick finish on the two cedar top bodies and moving on. Glued up the neck blanks, did the neck joint and routed the truss rod slot. Hopefully tomorrow will see the fretboard and bridge get made.

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  #74  
Old 12-10-2014, 07:31 PM
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I knew I would hate working with the fir. Just too much difference in hardness between the early and late wood. Although I have a spoke shave it is not all that useful with the fir as the stuff has no problem with you ripping out a bigger chunk than you intended. A rasp is not much better. Mostly used the ******* file, (oh come on guys, it is the name of a file) and I was debating on buying it, what do I need such a big file for? Sort of half way.



And after some sanding. Still need to glue on a head plate, might still do that tonight. Have to make a couple up.

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  #75  
Old 12-10-2014, 09:16 PM
TEK TEK is offline
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Hey Printer,
Great job, Looks like you are getting it all figured out. I too started building this year and just finished a Walnut with Cedar top and it turned out great. So if you have some cedar around it works great with walnut.
This building get addictive dosn't it.
Keep up the good work.
Travis
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