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  #16  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:15 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Originally Posted by HCG Canada View Post
Get a porous and softer wood, then the brightness of the echo will be sucked away somewhat (think of a room with lots of curtains in it versus just bare walls and windows).

I think sitka is a good choice for a first steel string guitar since the wood is workable & forgiving, and not extreme on either side (stiff or soft). Adirondack spruce should be fine to work with, too, however, so you don't have to over think your decision.
Hello HCG - Thanks for insights. I considered engelmann because collings and H&D roll with that on a lot of 00's. But ultimately, I'm gonna build it with the wood that invigorates my passion as well as take the advice not to overthink it.

Aspects I look forward to:
- Bracing it, tapping on it while dreaming of how good it might sound.
- Sunbursting it and applying finish.
- Cutting dovetail neck-body joins (a little scared too).

Aspects I fear:
- radiusing top, adding angle to neck, getting neck to join properly and making all that jive together.
- positioning bridge perfectly.
- Doing the inlay (I look forward to this as well but the neck stuff is challenging, as evidenced in the 3 electrics I've successfully made and 2 that havent made it very far ).

OK, next phases coming soon. Sam
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:35 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Well, resawing didn't go perfectly. I practiced a bit but on shorter stock. But I thickness sanded (with my sheet sander so not exactly ideal) the two sides to a decent degree of consistency, between 0.07" in a couple low spots and 0.09" in a couple high spots. I'll work on the high spots a bit more. Acceptable?

Because resawing didn't go well, I have two sides that are mostly around 0.04-0.06" BUT with one little area that's 0.025". I'm wondering if I could use that for a second guitar but beef it up big time? Thoughts?

Ok having fun. Sam





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  #18  
Old 09-29-2013, 05:59 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Resawing can be challenging and non-negotiables are: 1) a band saw that is setup accurately (top & bottom blade guides, table, and fence), and 2) a GOOD blade.

Coming off the band-saw, (as you know and as you reported), the wood needs to be thinned to remove blade marks. Then, even after bending, it can often be useful to remove incongruities (any waviness) with a scraper or belt sander with fine paper on it. This further thins the sides. So, point is, the 0.025 small portion might need to be thinned even further after processing is finished. I'd have difficulty recommending that it is Ok to use wood thinned so much. Depends, however, how much area and where. Also, even your "thick" spots at .04 and .06 measurements are thinner than the 2mm (aprox .08) that is close to a "standard" measurement for finished sides.
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  #19  
Old 09-29-2013, 11:55 AM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Originally Posted by HCG Canada View Post
Resawing can be challenging and non-negotiables are: 1) a band saw that is setup accurately (top & bottom blade guides, table, and fence), and 2) a GOOD blade.

Coming off the band-saw, (as you know and as you reported), the wood needs to be thinned to remove blade marks. Then, even after bending, it can often be useful to remove incongruities (any waviness) with a scraper or belt sander with fine paper on it. This further thins the sides. So, point is, the 0.025 small portion might need to be thinned even further after processing is finished. I'd have difficulty recommending that it is Ok to use wood thinned so much. Depends, however, how much area and where. Also, even your "thick" spots at .04 and .06 measurements are thinner than the 2mm (aprox .08) that is close to a "standard" measurement for finished sides.
Hi Ned - Thanks for response. The bandsaw setup worked pretty well on some 3" maple. But the wider stock had blade drift bottom to top. I set up the bearing guides as recommended (I think). I got a timberwolf 1/2" 3tpi blade, which seems awesome! Im thinking that the biggest problem could be that the initial stock was only 0.22" thick?

But I still have to resaw the backs, which are 7.5" high....Whoa, that wont be easy so I need better resaw technique.

So, what if I thickness sand the 2nd, super thin, sides set to say around 0.03-0.04" and DOUBLE SIDE it with some, say 0.05" flatsawn mahogany I have hanging around, ala a McKnight?
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2013, 10:24 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Originally Posted by Left of Sam View Post
Hi Ned - Thanks for response. The bandsaw setup worked pretty well on some 3" maple. But the wider stock had blade drift bottom to top. I set up the bearing guides as recommended (I think). I got a timberwolf 1/2" 3tpi blade, which seems awesome! Im thinking that the biggest problem could be that the initial stock was only 0.22" thick?

But I still have to resaw the backs, which are 7.5" high....Whoa, that wont be easy so I need better resaw technique.

So, what if I thickness sand the 2nd, super thin, sides set to say around 0.03-0.04" and DOUBLE SIDE it with some, say 0.05" flatsawn mahogany I have hanging around, ala a McKnight?
Laminating the sides should be fine. Great solution! Some top classical guitars fetching greater than 10k per instrument are made this way.

You will DEFINITELY want to test some scrap maple (get some from a lumber yard, even pretty maple is usually cheap) before sawing your real wood. Any deviations in a 3 or 4 inch cut will be multiplied greatly in an 8.5 to 9 inch cut.

The timberwolf blades are good. That is what I am using now and am completely satisfied. You will want to check a few things:

1) that you have enough tension on your blade. Remember, as you saw the blade warms and expands and becomes looser. So, you really need to slightly overtighten before you begin.
2) your top and bottom blade guides are on the same plane, and that they are tracking well on your tires. (Aside: My first bandsaw, a cast iron 2 piece unit with a riser installed, was terribly off alignment from the factory both with and without the riser. I had to mitigate by fitting a 2mm shim on one side of my riser, but I now do all my resawing on my more competent bandsaw - a General International 1-piece "European" style frame.) (EDIT: Sorry, just re-read that you state you've adjusted the guides.)
3) "Blade Drift" angle test. A fellow titled "The Wood Whisperer" has a great bandsaw setup guide to explain this.

Some people like the blade to always touch the inner blade guide bearings (upper and lower) with clearance only on the outer side of the blade, while others (including me) like the blade to run freely between the bearings with a touch of clearance on both sides. A bit of experimenting is the only way for you to find what matches your technique and your bandsaw.

Post with any more questions. I personally really enjoy resawing, and I know lots of other people on this forum have tonnes of resaw experience to help you out, too.
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Last edited by Ned Milburn; 09-30-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:28 PM
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Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Laminating the sides will work fine. Trying to bend them with that much variation in the thickness will not work, the thinner areas will bend much easier, so getting uniform curves will be next to impossible. DAMHIKT

I typically lose about 0.06" for each cut after I sand off the saw marks, so starting with a 0.22" thickness would give me two at 0.08" if everything was perfect. The problem is that 0.06" I lose isn't always exactly centered, so I'd probably end up with one at 0.06" and one at 0.10", and have to thin it down to match the other.

I'd say the piece you started with was a little thin, you'd have to have a pretty good saw and pretty good technique to make it work.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:48 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCG Canada View Post
Laminating the sides should be fine. Great solution! Some top classical guitars fetching greater than 10k per instrument are made this way.

You will DEFINITELY want to test some scrap maple (get some from a lumber yard, even pretty maple is usually cheap) before sawing your real wood. Any deviations in a 3 or 4 inch cut will be multiplied greatly in an 8.5 to 9 inch cut.

The timberwolf blades are good. That is what I am using now and am completely satisfied. You will want to check a few things:

1) that you have enough tension on your blade. Remember, as you saw the blade warms and expands and becomes looser. So, you really need to slightly overtighten before you begin.
2) your top and bottom blade guides are on the same plane, and that they are tracking well on your tires. (Aside: My first bandsaw, a cast iron 2 piece unit with a riser installed, was terribly off alignment from the factory both with and without the riser. I had to mitigate by fitting a 2mm shim on one side of my riser, but I now do all my resawing on my more competent bandsaw - a General International 1-piece "European" style frame.) (EDIT: Sorry, just re-read that you state you've adjusted the guides.)
3) "Blade Drift" angle test. A fellow titled "The Wood Whisperer" has a great bandsaw setup guide to explain this.

Some people like the blade to always touch the inner blade guide bearings (upper and lower) with clearance only on the outer side of the blade, while others (including me) like the blade to run freely between the bearings with a touch of clearance on both sides. A bit of experimenting is the only way for you to find what matches your technique and your bandsaw.

Post with any more questions. I personally really enjoy resawing, and I know lots of other people on this forum have tonnes of resaw experience to help you out, too.

Thanks a zillion for the the tips! I've been building the side holding jig thingy but am about ready to get back at it.

I've got some extra stock I can bring down to the same resaw height to practice/test setup.

I also tested out some aniline dye for sunbursting! Why isn't anything in acoustic building easy!!!!? My first test looks terrible. I've done a two tone sunburst with the color tone spray cans but I am hoping to do the dye/oil finish approach. I'll keep practicing that too.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:50 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger Knox View Post
Laminating the sides will work fine. Trying to bend them with that much variation in the thickness will not work, the thinner areas will bend much easier, so getting uniform curves will be next to impossible. DAMHIKT

I typically lose about 0.06" for each cut after I sand off the saw marks, so starting with a 0.22" thickness would give me two at 0.08" if everything was perfect. The problem is that 0.06" I lose isn't always exactly centered, so I'd probably end up with one at 0.06" and one at 0.10", and have to thin it down to match the other.

I'd say the piece you started with was a little thin, you'd have to have a pretty good saw and pretty good technique to make it work.

Hey Rodger. Thanks for that. I was really thinking this was a key problem for a resaw novice. Luckily I have two pieces 0.22" thick so I can use good ones from each piece (I hope).

Cool. Sam
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:38 AM
Jim.S Jim.S is offline
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Here is a tute on aniline dye use Sam. Finewoodworking

Jim
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:10 AM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Here is a tute on aniline dye use Sam. Finewoodworking

Jim
Link didn't work but if it's the video of the guy doing green to yellow burst on maple, that is the video that inspired me! However, it's not as easy as it looks!

I think I somehow wanted to believe I could be a finish expert overnight!

Sam
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  #26  
Old 10-03-2013, 11:45 AM
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How about Sitka? I built a maple guitar with a Sitka top and it's a rock and roll machine, loud and brash.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:19 PM
Jim.S Jim.S is offline
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Sorry about the link Sam but yes it is the guy doing the green/yellow on the curly maple. Keep playing with it and you will get it.

Jim
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  #28  
Old 10-10-2013, 07:12 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Progress report:

- Ive finished my side bender....might bend some wood tonight or tomorrow.
- made the side holder jig thing. dont know if there is much more to do there?
- Bought some Bastogne walnut that I'm really excited about! I think I'm going to make two at the same time. I think I'll make the walnut one lefty and the maple one righty.





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  #29  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:37 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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OK, testing out my aniline dyeing technique. I finished it with some gool ol spar varnish and a crappy brush. Then polished with DA polisher. Anyways, it just looks kind of like salmon to me more than a guitar side.

I dyed whole thing black Then sanded 220. Then used mostly black on edge, transitioned to dark brown, then amber. At the end, I added some yellow to the the lightest side to try to brighten things up.

Thoughts, comments, philosophies etc? i think lighter in general would be better, yes?

Thanks for looking. Sam




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  #30  
Old 10-12-2013, 01:17 AM
Jim.S Jim.S is offline
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It don't look too bad Sam, seems you have a reasonable blend. If you want lighter you don't have to pop the grain with black, you could just pop the grain with a amber.

Jim
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