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  #76  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:11 PM
scottcw scottcw is offline
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First clip is the 12-fret 00. Much richer in the mids to my ears. The second clip is more balanced tonally, so I think that is the 14 fret Mod D.
  #77  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:46 PM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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PMs sent! thanks for guessing!

Brian, thanks for the picture. i will post some more pics of the 00 soon.

Chad, the guitar is quite comfy! It might be a tad too small for me, but it sure is pretty!
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Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ
  #78  
Old 11-05-2013, 03:42 PM
JamesO JamesO is offline
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I think the mod-D comes first, too. The Backstreet Boys are bleeding through my headphones here in the coffee shop, but the first clip seems to have a bit more size when you pick the bass strings in the first part of the clips.

I'd love to know what some of the differences that stand out to you are in person! Both sound incredibly focused in the recording (at least through the left ear of my headphones), and pretty similar tonally.
  #79  
Old 11-05-2013, 10:30 PM
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Mod-D first, 00 second. My preference is the bass of the first with the mids and sweet trebles of the second. (Pretty much what I expect from my Mod-D)
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  #80  
Old 11-06-2013, 03:13 PM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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thanks for playing all! The first guitar is the Modified Dread and the Second guitar is the 00
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Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ

Last edited by ericcsong; 11-07-2013 at 08:23 AM.
  #81  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:05 PM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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more better pictures coming soon

Both guitars are Brazilian back and sides and German Spruce top.

As stated before, Jason wanted an Mod-D to show at Woodstock so I sent mine up. In return, I requested to give the 00 a test drive since I have a small body Kostal coming at Healdsburg 2015! I absolutely love this small guitar! I'll do my best describing the differences for you all. I hope this will be helpful for those who have a Kostal on order who are still debating between a small body or a Modified Dread.

I also had a chance to play Jason's OM while my Mod-D was being built. If you remember from my original build thread, I included this picture of me and the Kostal OM:



I said it was an honor to play for the master! And Somogyi was there too! One of the great moments in my own little guitar fantasy world

Jason said aside from guitar shows, I'm the only one who has had the privileged to have a Mod-D and his small bodied guitars simultaneously. Let's talk about the 00 first.

Upon first strum, this thing was a little monster. The notes were open, long, articulate.... The bass sounded big (especially from a small guitar!) and the sustain was quite impressive! This little guitar can certainly project as well! Talking with Jason more, he was saying his main goal with the 00 was to create a small body guitar that didn't play or sound like one. I think he hit this one out of the park! With most 00s, there is a thinness or a lack of roundness. Sure, they are fun to play, but they just have the extra air lacking that can keep a guitar from sounding both open and full. This guitar doesn't suffer from that at all! We do have to keep in mind that it is a 12th fret which pushes the bridge back a bit. Here is a picture again showing them side by side. Notice how much further the bridge is from the soundhole on the 00:



I spoke with Jason and he feels that although most would say that the by shifting the bridge back a bit, that is perceived as more bass. He thinks that instead of more bass, the bass notes will sustain longer which will make us think its more bassy. I do hear this sustain as the notes just ring and ring. I cannot emphasize how clear this guitar is. Especially with the G and B strings, there is just something that screams "sterile" in the most positive way. I use the word sterile to describe extremely balanced across the board. So with more sustain, a clarity with thick trebles, a super evenly balance, and a lot of projection, this guitar is a great one! Its also one of the few 00s I've played that you can really feel! When you hit those certain notes, you feel it in your chest and in your gut! A guitar that certainly moves the soul

Jason's end goal with his 00 was to give a large bodied voice in a small bodied guitar. I really think he did a great job doing so and am super pleased with his new 00!
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Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ
  #82  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:22 PM
usb_chord usb_chord is offline
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Well, it sounds like a terrific guitar! Have you decided what you will commission..? Also, I spy a fellow Grado user....
  #83  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:25 PM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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Well, it sounds like a terrific guitar! Have you decided what you will commission..? Also, I spy a fellow Grado user....
Brian, yes, some Grado RS1is. Love them I think I have decided what I'm getting, maybe I can get both?
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Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ
  #84  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:11 PM
fountainhead fountainhead is offline
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Default A new Journey in Life, a new guitar, a new Kostal! Brazilian/German ???

Great review Eric- thank you for sharing your experience, and for such detail in your
descriptions! Jason is a master, and one heck of a great guy!
  #85  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:20 PM
steveh steveh is offline
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Talking with Jason more, he was saying his main goal with the 00 was to create a small body guitar that didn't play or sound like one.
I hear this over and over again when a luthier offers up a small guitar. Why not just build a bigger guitar? I've played loads and loads of small body guitars that sound like...small guitars. There's just no getting away from the physics of soundboard area and box volume etc - small guitars don't move air.

Of course, what small guitars can do really spectacularly well is stellar trebles - some of the best trebles I've ever heard were from a Ralph Bown 0 parlour - it was microscopic but it had no bass, and indeed why would it.

It's all about what you lose on the swings versus what you gain on the roundabouts. Eric, you have an MD and have also played Jason's OO and OM, one of the few people to have played all three. What do you think you're getting from the 00 that you're not getting from the OM? There's no doubt that if you want to maximise the contrast between your guitars, you get the 00 since it's further from the MD than the OM.

Or are you getting all three !

Cheers,
Steve
  #86  
Old 11-08-2013, 03:07 PM
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Good comments, Steve. I sort of see it the same way, particularly as I've really come around on small body instruments the last few months. My perspective is that you should build a 00 that sounds like a 00 . . . for all the great things a 00 can do. Depending on what you are looking for, I don't really see this body size as a compromise - just a different sound. In some applications, the cavernous bass of a big body can also be undesirable.

If you are going to build a 00-size guitar, do it because you want to capture the 00 sound (or something resembling it), not because you wish it sounded like a bigger guitar. I've played a number of small bodied guitars in recent months that have real volume and power, rivaling or exceeding that of larger bodied guitars.
  #87  
Old 11-09-2013, 01:06 AM
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steveh - A great question! A quick answer is simply size. A dread (and even an OM) now cause pain in my right shoulder, and a 14 fret neck causes pain in my left wrist. I've moved to smaller 12 fret guitars for those reasons alone.

While I missed the deep bass that comes from a dread, I discovered that I prefer the more focused sound that seems to come out of the smaller 12 frets. So the ideal guitar for me would be a combination of the two. That's no easy feat, it seems. Goodall and Froggy pull that off with their "parlors". I'm sure bracing and top thicknessing help with moving air, but I believe a lot of it comes from the extra body length in their designs. It creates more surface area and more internal volume.

Somogyi has written pretty extensively about "coupling" the top and back to move air better (which is how you get bass, as you point out). I suspect Jason Kostal is doing something along these lines with his 00.
  #88  
Old 11-11-2013, 09:15 AM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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I agree with what everyone has said. Why build a small guitar to try to sound like a bigger guitar? And of course, there is the other side that some people just need a smaller guitar for comfort. I'm thankful that we can live in the golden age of lutherie to give us such options!

The way I see it, I never knew an OM could sound as loud as as big until I heard this cocobolo Santa Cruz OM. I thought to myself, now this is an OM! I played a braz/euro Bourgeois OMC at Mandolin Brothers that gave me a similar wow factor.

But those feelings certainly intensified when I was able to play my first Somogyi OM:



I thought to myself, how can this guitar sound so big? How does this little OM sound bigger than many amazing dreads that I have played? I think the same can be said about the first time you play a Traugott! There is this very special wow factor that places them in a different league.

The same feeling can be said about this little 00. Even though you can go with a bigger guitar, for those who need a smaller guitar for health or comfort issues, some will be on the hunt for those small guitars that just sound huge. Until this guitar, I haven't found one yet where you can really feel it in your chest. But after playing this little thing, I was like, wow, I can actually feel this thing. That Somogyi sensation of a huge guitar in a tiny box
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Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ

Last edited by ericcsong; 11-11-2013 at 09:31 AM.
  #89  
Old 11-11-2013, 09:47 PM
racman racman is offline
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Sounds like Jason's 00 would be the equivalent to a Ferrari "Hot Hatch" or Compact car in my opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that!
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  #90  
Old 11-13-2013, 08:03 AM
ericcsong ericcsong is offline
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Both guitars are Brazilian back and sides and German Spruce top.....
Jason said aside from guitar shows, I'm the only one who has had the privileged to have a Mod-D and his small bodied guitars simultaneously. Let's talk about the 00 first.
Many of you have been asking me the comparison between the 00 and the Mod-D. I tried to capture the differences in the soundcloud and also my mini assessment of the 00.

Lets talk about the Mod-D.

I've had my Mod-D for over 2 years now. Sometimes its not fair comparing the two. I remember I had a discussion with Kevin Ryan when commissioning my Cathedral wondering if I should deepen the body like the signature Bensusan he had at that time. He mentioned that as a guitar ages, there is a maturity in the bass. Many could perceive that there is a deepening in the bass as a guitar ages, this can all be part of the opening up process. My Mod-D certainly has matured in the short time that I've had it, and it defintiely is bassy! When I commissioned it, I asked Jason to focus on a very deep haunting tone and a thunderous bass found in a Somogyi I played.

Some remember this picture when I commissioned my Mod-D. Jason held the wood up to my ear to play around with tap tones and I remember this set was the one that rang the most:



I strung them both up with the same strings (D'addario EXP phos bronze bluegrass). I'm not a bluegrass player, but I had two sets around the house so I wanted to compare them with the same strings. The bluegrass seem to be in between Mediums and Lights.

So the Mod-D is bassy, boomy, big, versatile, the list goes on and on. But what about the differences? Upon first pick at both when they were side by side, the 00 was louder! How can this be? A small body being louder? While the 00 sounder louder, the Mod-D sounded bigger. This shows that its not always the bigger guitar that is the loudest guitar.

I'm not saying the Mod-D isn't loud, but lets just say the little guitar moves less air so its projecting that air out fast! It definitely has better projection than the bigger guitar. Being a little confused, I asked Jason what was going on here.

Of course he doesn't give me an easy answer and says there are so many variables! One thing you read here on AGF every now and then is about action vs. volume. Some say that if you reduce the action, you can get less volume. I think I'm experiencing that first hand here. Earlier this year, I was able to meet with Kenny Marshall. He used to work at Zion guitars as their neck specialist. I had his set up my guitar to my liking which is extremely low action and when drop tuned, I'll get a tiny buzz, which I like (well, the guitar will buzz, not me!) Some say that Tony is a set up specialist and after having him set up a few of my guitars, I believe it!

One slight side effect for low action would be a little loss in volume. But its not necessarily about the action itself, but everything that is involved in a setup. Even down to the break angle at the bridge. Jason said that he tends to have his action low, but not as low as I like it. One reason is that within the first year or so of a guitars life, it will adjust and acclimate to the climate where the guitar will live. Things will shift and things will move. And not everyone likes super low action!

So in comparison, the two guitars are very different, yet sound so much a like. When listening to the recording, you can tell its the same maker. You can hear that Kostal signature tone. I asked Jason about his thoughts, he probably said it best by saying that the 00 wasn't built to compete with the Mod-D. Nor was it built to compete with his OM. Its just a different guitar! He aimed to build a small guitar that would sound surprisingly bigger than it seems. He even deepened the body a hair to achieve his results.

What I learned again from this comparison is that the bigger guitar will not necessarily be the louder guitar! The 00 will give you the focused balanced tone with great mids, thick trebles, and great projection. The Mod-D will give you that haunting bass and big big cavernous sound, but at the ame time keep the balance (weird, I know!). My question now will be if I put darker strings on the 00 and brighter stings on the Mod-D, how would they compare? Its madness I tell you! But the process of playing such fine guitars is certainly fun and an enjoyable journey!
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Eric

Omega Braz MJ, 2011 Omega MJ Braz Baritone
Ryan Cathedral ABW/Bosnian
Build thread: 2011 Kostal Mod D Brazilian/German
Build thread: 2015 Kostal OM Brazilian/German
Build Thread:2019 Bigfoot Mod D
2017 Osthoff Coco SJ
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