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  #31  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:00 AM
wrench68 wrench68 is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Depending upon how well-trained are one's ears, tuning a guitar can be either very simple or not so simple. In the end, it does come down to what your ears tell you.

Without getting into it, although using the 5th fret harmonic on one string to tune the 7th fret harmonic on the next string is a popular method of tuning, it is one that I don't recommend. You are better off choosing from a variety of other methods.

The short answer is that the fretted notes produce pitches belong to a mathematical system called equal temperament while the harmonics produce pitches that do not. The only place where they are the same is octaves and unisons. This theoretically rules out comparing 5th fret harmonics with 7th fret harmonics. The harmonics may be in tune, but the fretted notes won't.

Tuning and intonation, now THAT is a deep, dark rabbit hole.
+1 and Amen.
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:08 AM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
The short answer is that the fretted notes produce pitches belong to a mathematical system called equal temperament while the harmonics produce pitches that do not.
Indeed they belong to the Pythagorean temperament ... oohhh someone's been doing their homework!!
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:53 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
Indeed they belong to the Pythagorean temperament ... oohhh someone's been doing their homework!!
An extra 2000 points for the returning champion!

I'll take Esoteric Tuning Methods for 1000, Alex.
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:08 PM
kbroce kbroce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Tuning and intonation, now THAT is a deep, dark rabbit hole.
Haha, welp I've got some homework to do. I knew enought about tuning and intonation to know theres a lot more to know.

I'm curious how much of a difference there is between Pythagorean and Equal temperment, mainly how many cents difference there would be between being in tune to one tempement compared to being in tune with the other. If the difference is less than the accuracy of the tuner you are using, tuning by harmonics could still be benifitial. Then theres the problem with harmonic tuning in that any difference between the two would accumulate as you tune each string to the last.

Ok now im falling in that hole and am gonna stop. I dont have a guitar or tuner with me, so this can wait. But if anyone has any good reads on the subjec please share.
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:41 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by kbroce View Post
how many cents difference there would be between being in tune to one tempement compared to being in tune with the other.
A partial comparison can be found here, at the bottom: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...music/et2.html

As you can see, 3rds are the worst. Hence, the tuning problems on the f# on the first string when playing a typical D major chord.
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2012, 06:36 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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So I’ll be adding a classical guitar to my list of setup projects!!

Funny little background story … out of nowhere my wife (a/k/a She Who Must Be Obeyed) goes, “I wanna buy you a guitar as a present.” Whoa. The only stipulation was that I had to get it that day (last Saturday) … and of course we had a prior engagement and she knew it would be cutting it close to store closing time. Suffice to say, she underestimated the sense of urgency that can be brought to bear quickly when a new guitar is on the line.

So wanting to round out my collection of 2 6-strings and an electric, I opted for a classical – something I always wanted. I settled on a Cordoba C5. I played the C7 as well as a used (slightly dented) Esteve (sp?) and decided on the brand new C5 partly for the sound and partly for the price range.

I’ve been doing some research and am appreciating the nuances of a classical guitar, in particular the tension of nylon strings and its effect on action (or limitations thereof). I’ve got some Gotoh tuners on the way and was going to go with some mammoth ivory blank nut and saddle but evidently those are backordered. I plan to just do a tuner upgrade and then do a setup with just the stock bone nut and saddle for now. I do want to lower the action but I want to be cognizant of how the nylon strings will react.
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  #37  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:44 AM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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In doing some research on the classical, I came across this …

Quote:
When changing the strings on a classical guitar it is best to change one string at a time. It is not good for the neck of the guitar to have a sudden release of tension and then to have it applied forcefully later. This can lead to distortion of the neck and permanent damage.
I can’t imagine that this would apply just to classicals. Given it’s wider (and presumably tougher neck), I would think this is even more applicable to steel strings with its much higher tensions. But in all my research in setting up a traditional steel string, I never came across a warning that removing all of the strings may cause this sort of shock to the neck. I mean, “permanent damage” … little strong, don’t you think? Thoughts?
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  #38  
Old 01-25-2012, 03:18 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Lots of opinions to choose from. Pick the one you like: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...=239489&page=6
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  #39  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:05 AM
Taylorplayer Taylorplayer is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
As the author of that, I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have about it.
Charles -

This is just to say "hello". We are very fortunate to have such talented folks here of the AGForum. Especially ones that are willing to freely share that talent!

I have printed out you article on Basic Guitar Set-up 101 and plan to study it carefully.

Thanks!
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Last edited by Taylorplayer; 01-26-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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  #40  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:07 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by Taylorplayer View Post
Charles -

This is just to say "hello".

I have printed out you article on Basic Guitar Set-up 101 and plan to study it carefully.
Hello to you as well.

There are probably some things that should be updated and added to, but the basics are there. It was written at a time when little was available on the subject, the internet wasn't as widely used as it is now and before the time of Youtube. I've debated making some Youtube videos that illustrate the steps, but there is already a lot out there. I don't see any reason to duplicate it. I'd need to answer the question, "What can I uniquely bring to the subject that hasn't already been covered?"
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  #41  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:55 AM
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rrgguitarman rrgguitarman is offline
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Quote:
have printed out you article on Basic Guitar Set-up 101 and plan to study it carefully.
I have tried printing it, but I only get the first page!

Did anyone else have the same problem?

Thanks.
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  #42  
Old 01-26-2012, 04:41 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Originally Posted by rrgguitarman View Post
I have tried printing it, but I only get the first page!

Did anyone else have the same problem?

Thanks.
I took the liberty of posting the whole article in PDF to my server if anyone else is having trouble. Charles, please let me know if you prefer I take it off …

http://rob.tribalsurf.net/BasicGuita...rlesTauber.zip

(just right click and save as – the pdf file has been zipped)
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  #43  
Old 01-26-2012, 06:35 PM
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This is really nice. Thank you.
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  #44  
Old 01-26-2012, 06:53 PM
RussB RussB is offline
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Originally Posted by rrgguitarman View Post
I have tried printing it, but I only get the first page!

Did anyone else have the same problem?

Thanks.

Yes, I have that same problem. Thank ronin for putting it all together
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  #45  
Old 01-28-2012, 09:07 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
I took the liberty of posting the whole article in PDF to my server if anyone else is having trouble. Charles, please let me know if you prefer I take it off …
That's fine. Thanks for asking.

If you do a Google search on "basic guitar setup 101", you'll find a number of versions of it, even going back to the days of ascii "illustrations". (You'll also find a lot of imitations/permutations of it.) All have been captured by someone or other at some point in time. Some with my permission, others not. Just be aware that although they live on forever in cyberspace, they don't get updated. And it is need of some update, which will probably get done soon, when it gets moved to a new server.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 01-28-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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