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Old 02-11-2019, 05:17 AM
Black-n-Nan Black-n-Nan is offline
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Default Chord suggestion

Just working on "C'est la vie" by ELP. Everything is pretty straight through except the instrumental part where chords progression is Dm over C# then Dm over C. Could not find proper left hand position for the strings sound clear.

Tried different ways, but no success yet
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-n-Nan View Post
Just working on "C'est la vie" by ELP. Everything is pretty straight through except the instrumental part where chords progression is Dm over C# then Dm over C. Could not find proper left hand position for the strings sound clear.

Tried different ways, but no success yet
HI B-n-N

Are you playing fingerstyle, or with a pick? Not that it matters.

Greg Lake plays it in Dropped D on a 12 string (you are likely aware of this).

And the run is not merely D - D/C# - D/C but the run extends on to B - Bb and finishes on A[/I] and the chords shift as a result of the run, and to accomodate it and integrate it with new chords.

Greg Lake is all over the neck and when performing the song live, and he has used other instruments to cover the chords while he moves around in solo fashion. And sometimes live (these last few years) he sometimes leaves the 'interlude' out all together.

I found this guy on YouTube, and his voice leaves a lot to be desired, but around 2:15 he does a great rendition of that little instrumental section…not the full solo, but his hand positions show some possibilities of fingerings.



Hope this gives you some new things to try…



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Old 02-11-2019, 08:51 AM
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For example I hear the second chord as Em7/C (x3x030). Check out more carefully the actual chords played.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:49 AM
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Em7/C (x3x030)
Cadd9? ...
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:54 AM
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Cadd9? ...
Or Gsus4add6/C
Basically I want to show a slash chord to emphasize the descending bass line.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:58 PM
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Hey B-n-N!

YouTube often pushes videos on topics I've searched to my main home feed and this one showed up about an hour after I posted the strange little guy…this is the most comprehensive tutorial I've seen on the song "C'est la vie". This video did not show up in my original searches. It's only been up about 3 weeks (late Jan 2019).

The instrumental in question begins about 14:15…



This was a really fun watch, and I'm marking it so I can go back and break down the chords for playing in A or Dm. He gets very specific with note names, and intervals and chord names. It's a good tutorial not only for this song, but for adding to one's arsenal of ways to tie chords/inversions together.

If this doesn't nail Greg Lake's arrangement, it'd be close enough for most players. And I've seen Greg vary it on different recordings. Actually the tutorial really got some of the intricacies broken down to basics, including the switch from eighths-in-4 to triplets-in-4 for the instrumental part.

I'm one who often learns an exact copy and then varies it for my own use, and I'd be tempted to hybrid both versions of the dropping progression were I to learn the piece for performance.

Hope this gives you more fodder!



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Last edited by ljguitar; 02-11-2019 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:20 PM
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Yes, there are variations in how people play things.

The version by ELP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSaPyuVMTiU


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Old 02-11-2019, 11:59 PM
Black-n-Nan Black-n-Nan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hey B-n-N!

YouTube often pushes videos on topics I've searched to my main home feed and this one showed up about an hour after I posted the strange little guy…this is the most comprehensive tutorial I've seen on the song "C'est la vie". This video did not show up in my original searches. It's only been up about 3 weeks (late Jan 2019).

The instrumental in question begins about 14:15…



This was a really fun watch, and I'm marking it so I can go back and break down the chords for playing in A or Dm. He gets very specific with note names, and intervals and chord names. It's a good tutorial not only for this song, but for adding to one's arsenal of ways to tie chords/inversions together.

If this doesn't nail Greg Lake's arrangement, it'd be close enough for most players. And I've seen Greg vary it on different recordings. Actually the tutorial really got some of the intricacies broken down to basics, including the switch from eighths-in-4 to triplets-in-4 for the instrumental part.

I'm one who often learns an exact copy and then varies it for my own use, and I'd be tempted to hybrid both versions of the dropping progression were I to learn the piece for performance.

Hope this gives you more fodder!



Hi Larry,


This is the vid I'm learning from! Love this guy lessons. My major problem is that i can't get the G string sound clear on Dm/C#-Dm/C progression. I mute it with the ring finger Tried different palm position -the thumb over the neck, and classical one - the thumb just below the middle of the neck. Does not work

Need to work harder on it.


Anyway thanks a lot for advises. Have listened your songs - beautiful playing!

WBR,

Leonid
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:52 AM
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Well, don't know where ELP came from then. Anyway I have no problem with playing that cleanly. Need to be nearly vertical with the ring finger fingertip
and to do that you need a really, really short fingernail. Very short fingernails on the fretting hand is a good idea always.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:40 AM
Black-n-Nan Black-n-Nan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Well, don't know where ELP came from then. Anyway I have no problem with playing that cleanly. Need to be nearly vertical with the ring finger fingertip
and to do that you need a really, really short fingernail. Very short fingernails on the fretting hand is a good idea always.
Thank you. Will try again tonight. And I have 1 11/16 nut width.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-n-Nan View Post
Hi Larry,


This is the vid I'm learning from! Love this guy lessons. My major problem is that i can't get the G string sound clear on Dm/C#-Dm/C progression. I mute it with the ring finger Tried different palm position -the thumb over the neck, and classical one - the thumb just below the middle of the neck. Does not work

Need to work harder on it.


Anyway thanks a lot for advises. Have listened your songs - beautiful playing!

WBR,

Leonid
HI B-n-N
There is not a magic work around for this issue. I don't even think it's a matter of the neck width or depth. Young classical players who play a full 50.8mm wide nut learn to play this pattern. The pattern is challenging, but not impossible.

To get the pinky not to lock up is key, and stretching it to reach and still work is a relax move not a forced move. The pinky (and hand) need to relax and be fluid. It's counterintuitive. Most of my students when faced with new/awkward fingerings try to force them into place.

I use a simple exercise with people to aid the learning of new/challenging fingerings.

In the case of this particular passage, just finger the D to D/C# to D/C switch without playing the right hand. Do it back and forth slowly and deliberately. Only focus on the fretting hand and keeping it accurate and relaxed.

Don't focus on whether you are muting the bass notes (or not) till you train the fingers to fall into place without being pushed there.

There were times when I was training my pinky to obey me, that it would lock, and I literally picked it up with my fretting hand, lifted it till it unlocked, and put it into place. Once you learn to relax the pinky (and every other finger on your fretting hand), these type progressions are more manageable.

Let us know how it works out.



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Old 02-18-2019, 06:21 AM
Black-n-Nan Black-n-Nan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post

Let us know how it works out.



Thanks! Eventually got it. Your advise to relax left hand is very useful.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:11 PM
jeanray1113 jeanray1113 is offline
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I have been learning the same progression for Time in a Bottle, and I have small hands/ short fingers. Positioning my thumb further down the neck helps with the reach for the c#. When you move down to c you can switch your pinky to 3rd fret/ 2nd string and grab the c with you ring finger. I have spent a lot of time going back and forth from the D to D/c#: Nothing like practice!
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