How do dreadnaughts and jumbos differ?

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by sinistral

The irony is, the original dreadnought design was a slope-shoulder design. If that design had stuck, we would just refer to it as a dreadnought, and the 14-fret versions as “square-shoulder” dreadnoughts (some use that term anyway for clarity).

Gibson came out with its Jumbo at around the same time Martin went from 12 to 14 frets on its dreadnoughts. That guitar was roughly the same shape as Martin’s 12-fret dreadnought. The Super Jumbos were a size bigger, but when Gibson dropped “Super” from the name, that size became know as the jumbo, leaving Gibson’s original jumbo shape in linguistic limbo. Slope-shoulder dreadnought (or round-shoulder dreadnought, as Gibson sometimes calls it) just stuck. It didn’t really matter what came later once the 14-fret version became the de facto shape identified simply as a “dreadnought.”

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All that is hard to keep up with for a newbie.

[donlyn]

How do dreadnaughts and jumbos differ?

Originally Posted by sinistral

When Martin introduced a 14-fret guitar for the first time, it was a 14-fret version of their 000 guitar (the different sizes were discussed in that other thread). For a while, Martin used the term “Orchestra Model” to describe any guitar with a 14-fret neck, but the 14-fret 000 was called the OM (e.g., OM-18, OM-28, OM-45). In 1934, they stopped calling them OMs, and shortened the scale length from 25.4 (“standard”) to 24.5 (“short”). For many decades, Martin didn’t make OMs—000s with a standard-scale neck. Eric Schoenberg is credited with reviving the OM in the late ‘60s.

Today an OM is generally considered any guitar similar in shape to a Martin 000, with a standard-scale neck (Martin 000s have short-scale necks). Modern Martin OMs have 1/4” main braces, but my understanding is that the OMs from the early 1930s had 5/16” main braces.

As Ralph124C41 pointed out, the name comes from the H.M.S. Dreadnought, which was the largest battleship of its time. As Silly Moustache noted, Martin made the first iteration in 1916 for Major Kealakai, and prominent Hawaiian guitarist and band leader at the time. Martin then made some for Ditson under Ditson’s name, and didn’t make them under their own name until Ditson went out of business. When Martin included them in their catalog, they spelled the name “Dreadnaught,” presumably a play on the name “Dreadnought” and Martin’s convention of using zeros (aughts) to denote their model sizes. Here’s the page from the 1935 catalog:



Martin continued to spell dreadnought with an “a” instead of an “o” for several decades. Catalogs from the late ‘60s still say “Dreadnaught,” but sometime in the ‘70s Martin relented and started spelling dreadnought with an “o.”

Took 'em that long to look it up in a dictionary ?



Don
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[Cypress Knee]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Martin continued to spell dreadnought with an “a” instead of an “o” for several decades. Catalogs from the late ‘60s still say “Dreadnaught,” but sometime in the ‘70s Martin relented and started spelling dreadnought with an “o.”

Finally an explanation I can understand.

[donlyn]

How do dreadnaughts and jumbos differ?

The significance of HMS Dreadnought was not that it was the largest ship of it's time. It may have been, but it was soon equaled and surpassed by battleships built worldwide over the next decade.

Launched in 1906, it was actually a radical design using all big guns as a main battery to increase the damage effect and not confuse the shell splashes with guns of lesser caliber. Prior to the launch of HMS Dreadnought, battleships were given guns of multiple calibers. It was also armored differently. Much of the ship had little or lesser armor. Most of the armor was dedicated to protect the central vitals of the ship.

Due to its radical effect on building ships of war, all-big-gun battleships were referred to as "dreadnoughts" from that time forward. U.S. battleships reached their peak with the "Iowa" class battleships built during WWII. In addition to WWII service, the "New Jersey" has been used for shore bombardment missions in Korea, Vietnam, and beyond. Currently a floating museum ship in New Jersey.

For more info, "Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War" by Robert K. Massie, has the full story. His sequel, "Steel Castles", covers dreadnoughts during WWI Europe.


As far as I know, "Jumboes" never fought in any wars, except maybe a battle of the bands.


Extra Credit: What's the oldest currently commissioned warship in the U.S. Navy?

Be well and read well,

Don
.

[Alan Carruth]

donlyn asked:
"What's the oldest currently commissioned warship in the U.S. Navy?"

So far as I know, the frigate USS Constitution, in Boston.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

donlyn asked:
"What's the oldest currently commissioned warship in the U.S. Navy?"

So far as I know, the frigate USS Constitution, in Boston.

Alan,

Thanks for answering.

Absolutely correct. Launched in 1797, and saved from the breakers by a poem, featuring the line, "tear her tattered ensign down". Still has a navy captain and navy crew assigned. Every year she goes out into Boston harbor on July 4th and fires off her guns. A living museum. Been on it a few times, including with my sons.

Don
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[lowrider]

I'll bet that this is the most interest there has ever been on this forum about Jumbo Guitars!

[PinkLine]

Physically, jumbos are curvier with a bigger bottom end. Sound wise, jumbos are more balanced, while dreads have a bigger bottom end. I've only owned one jumbo, and while it sounded glorious, it was not as comfortable to play sitting down. These days I've gravitated even smaller, preferring OMs and parlors.

[Alan Carruth]

The reason the Constitution goes for it's annual cruise is to turn it around. If it was left parked at the pier facing the same way all the time the masts would start to lean toward the south. The shrinkage from the sun being always on the same side would cause the them to 'cold creep', and take a set in that direction. It's the same reason we need truss rods in the necks of our guitars to counter the steady pull of the strings. So we get back to something guitar related...

[Guitars44me]

Big and bigger….

Haha

Paul