Selmer Build

redir · #1 07-09-2012, 11:26 AM

Here's my latest guitar and my very first Selmer build. I love this guitar. I built this one for my self as it being my first I was quite unsure of how it would come out. But now I love it, all my flat tops will be sitting in their cases for a while

These are just cheap cell phone pics but anyway...

The Pliage was the thing that kept me for months attempting to build this guitar but I came up with an idea that worked. It seems that most builders bend the two top halves and join them but I couldn't conceive of doing this. So I joined them and then bent it and there was no glue line separation.

arie · #2 07-09-2012, 12:43 PM

nice and clean. thanks for sharing!

mikealpine · #3 07-09-2012, 12:49 PM

Maybe a silly question, but what does that bend in the top do for the guitar and/or guitarist?

Thanks!

redir · #4 07-09-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikealpine

Maybe a silly question, but what does that bend in the top do for the guitar and/or guitarist?

Thanks!

Not a silly question at all. Some builders build without the Pliage and no one seems to complain. I built the pliage into my work board and I also canted the sides to accept the angles like they used to do with the old turn of the century Neapolitan mandolins. I have such a mandolin so I learned a bit from looking at it.

What I have heard is that when you create the bend in the top then you don't need to force that shape with arched braces and hence you have a top that vibrates more freely creating a louder and punchier guitar. Also, and this I can see, the angle created by the pliage is right at the bridge location and it makes a nice ramp for the strings down to the tail piece.

Honestly I don't have enough experience to say one way or another about pliage but I wanted to build to original specs and from what I understand Macaferri designed the guitar for pliage.

redir · #5 07-10-2012, 06:45 AM

Oops I meant to put this in the Build forum. Does anyone know how to move it. perhaps a mod?

mikealpine · #6 07-10-2012, 07:30 AM

Thanks for explaining! Also, it looks like your bridge is simply wood. Is that correct? Will the wood get grooves from the strings? I'm so used to seeing bone or Tusq, or some such material. Is there any impact on sound from just a wood saddle (if that is what I'm seeing)?

If you can post a close-up of the brige and tailstock, that would be very interesting to see.

Thanks again,
Mike

redir · #7 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM

Yes it is just wood. It's the way they were done originally. It's also a floating bridge, not glued to the top. Made of rosewood and hollowed out on the inside to reduce weight. I'm actually not done with it yet. Once you get it intonated you glue down what they call the moustache which is two little pieces that continue the line the bridge makes from left to right such that the floating bridge fits into two blocks of sorts. That way when you remove all the strings the bridge doesn't fall out and have to be intonated again. So it would look like this:

Sometimes you see these guitars with archtop style adjustable bridges and I've even seen them with a bone saddle inserted into the floating bridge. It probably would alter the tone for better or worse is up to the player to decide.

rlouie · #8 07-10-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

Oops I meant to put this in the Build forum. Does anyone know how to move it. perhaps a mod?

sure, I'll move I for you.......nice build.

Kitchen Guitars · #9 07-10-2012, 01:52 PM

are you anywhere near Pittsburgh? I'd love to hear it. Neat build.

jazzer57 · #10 07-10-2012, 04:52 PM

Hello,

Beautiful guitar! I am in the process of my first builds and have chose the gypsy style as well. I'm curious to know if you used any particular instruction as a basis? I have the Michael Collins book and DVD's and going by those as my model. Of course I'm reading alot of articles and have built most all of my jigs and parts (vacuum system, pliage bender,etc...). I even contacted Michael to ask questions and such and he has proven to be a very nice fellow and generous with his instruction.
Regards,

DJ Parker

redir · #11 07-11-2012, 07:51 AM

Kitchen, I'm in SW Virginia which is a pretty good way from Pitt. But if you ever come this way down rt 81 let me know.

///

I talked to Michael Collins too and in fact bought my laminated sides and back from him. I used his book as a reference but I built according to my own style which is on an open work board, no mold. I built the work board by screwing down a thin piece of plywood to arched braces to get the pliage and arch. It worked exceptionally well. But then I built the pliage into the sides where as most builders keep the sides flat and just force fit the top when gluing. Seriously if you sit down and give a good deal of thought to the geometry of these tops it will make your head spin.

I read somewhere that Maccaferri actually wanted the guitar sides to be canted but Selmer never built them that way, maybe one or two exist out there who knows.

But mostly I used the Francois Charles plans. They were very accurate and I had them opened on a bench the whole time and you can just lay your piece up on the plans to size them up. I felt like I was over building the guitar so I actually made the braces slightly smaller. I also did a bolt on neck. And I found the traditional neck joint way to complicated so I did my usual scarf joint, although this time the scarf is under the fret board because of the way these necks are built. They are built so that they are thicker at the heal then at the head. I must say I really like the way that feels, it sort of gives you a tactile gauge for where you are on the neck.

IT really gives me a great appreciation for how brilliant a designer Maccaferri was in building this instrument.

Anyway between Michaels book and the Charles plans and lots of online help you can pull it off. Have fun.

selmer · #12 11-26-2021, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

Kitchen, I'm in SW Virginia which is a pretty good way from Pitt. But if you ever come this way down rt 81 let me know.

///

I talked to Michael Collins too and in fact bought my laminated sides and back from him. I used his book as a reference but I built according to my own style which is on an open work board, no mold. I built the work board by screwing down a thin piece of plywood to arched braces to get the pliage and arch. It worked exceptionally well. But then I built the pliage into the sides where as most builders keep the sides flat and just force fit the top when gluing. Seriously if you sit down and give a good deal of thought to the geometry of these tops it will make your head spin.

I read somewhere that Maccaferri actually wanted the guitar sides to be canted but Selmer never built them that way, maybe one or two exist out there who knows.

But mostly I used the Francois Charles plans. They were very accurate and I had them opened on a bench the whole time and you can just lay your piece up on the plans to size them up. I felt like I was over building the guitar so I actually made the braces slightly smaller. I also did a bolt on neck. And I found the traditional neck joint way to complicated so I did my usual scarf joint, although this time the scarf is under the fret board because of the way these necks are built. They are built so that they are thicker at the heal then at the head. I must say I really like the way that feels, it sort of gives you a tactile gauge for where you are on the neck.

IT really gives me a great appreciation for how brilliant a designer Maccaferri was in building this instrument.

Anyway between Michaels book and the Charles plans and lots of online help you can pull it off. Have fun.

hi!
i use this tread, to introduce myselfe, as my dream is to build a selmer guitar ! but this might never happen, because i am convinced this would be a very challenging mission! i have lurked on, online forums and watched many clips regarding guitar building on the tube. i am a retired cabinetmaker, and got some tools and knowledge, but lack motivation and confidance, to achive this goal of building a selmer replica, using only australian native timbers.

i even own a selmer replica build by ajl, and it plays well and has a good sound, but the finish is terrible, and the craftsman ship very modest (torn in end grain of the sound board, from using the router the wrong way, just filled with putty, walnut neck the grain runs not straight all the way, came with a crack, splinter missing at the sound board, and much more) sorry for the rant, but selmers for 1/3 of the price gdisplay better craftsman ship...

my first question would be, what direction the end grain should run, for my ladder bracing. i would use huon pine as sound board and bracing.
if i look cross cut onto my bracing, soundboard horizontal should the grain, face 90% up, be 45% tilted or even parallel to the sound board.
the last option would be very tricky to trim, i think you call it partioning.

if i pretend the brace is a marimba bar, and i do, does that mean the high points are located where the pivot points are?

anyway, i'm, mildy dyslexic, so forgive please my spelling.

my aim would be to, make the body of my selmer, to behave like a marimba bar. a lot of flexing would happen around the pliage of a selmer and ladder bracing would further enable this motion.

Fathand · #13 11-26-2021, 07:27 PM

Nice Build,

One of these is on my list to build some day. I saw the bridge and tailpiece cheap once and bought them to put away for when I'm ready.

What did you use for tuners and where did you order the plans?

I just noticed that I replied to a zombie thread. Disregard if nothing is pertinent anymore.

redir · #14 11-29-2021, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selmer

hi!
i use this tread, to introduce myselfe, as my dream is to build a selmer guitar ! but this might never happen, because i am convinced this would be a very challenging mission! i have lurked on, online forums and watched many clips regarding guitar building on the tube. i am a retired cabinetmaker, and got some tools and knowledge, but lack motivation and confidance, to achive this goal of building a selmer replica, using only australian native timbers.

i even own a selmer replica build by ajl, and it plays well and has a good sound, but the finish is terrible, and the craftsman ship very modest (torn in end grain of the sound board, from using the router the wrong way, just filled with putty, walnut neck the grain runs not straight all the way, came with a crack, splinter missing at the sound board, and much more) sorry for the rant, but selmers for 1/3 of the price gdisplay better craftsman ship...

my first question would be, what direction the end grain should run, for my ladder bracing. i would use huon pine as sound board and bracing.
if i look cross cut onto my bracing, soundboard horizontal should the grain, face 90% up, be 45% tilted or even parallel to the sound board.
the last option would be very tricky to trim, i think you call it partioning.

if i pretend the brace is a marimba bar, and i do, does that mean the high points are located where the pivot points are?

anyway, i'm, mildy dyslexic, so forgive please my spelling.

my aim would be to, make the body of my selmer, to behave like a marimba bar. a lot of flexing would happen around the pliage of a selmer and ladder bracing would further enable this motion.

My best advice would be to try and find Michael Collin's book on building a Selmer / Mac. I think it's out of print but he also sells DVD's. Get those if you can. Also get the Francois Charles plans.

Vertical grain is typically used for all bracing on guitars. Grain in this sense is actually the annular rings of the tree. When cut on quarter the annular rings, or grain, will be vertical and should run the full length of the brace or at least close.

So when siting down the length of the brace with the glue face down the grain lines should look like this: ||||||

Not this \\\\\\

Having said that many guitars have been made with flat sawn or not perfectly vertical braces too. But generally speaking vertical grain is typically used for bracing.

If you were a cabinet maker for many years then you do probably have the skills necessary to build a guitar. Anyone can really. Building a good one is something that takes time, iterations, and skill.

All I can say is go for it. I had built something like 50 or 60 guitars before building my first Selmer and it caused me some trepidation too. There are a couple things about it that are different from a normal guitar construction.

redir · #15 11-29-2021, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fathand

Nice Build,

One of these is on my list to build some day. I saw the bridge and tailpiece cheap once and bought them to put away for when I'm ready.

What did you use for tuners and where did you order the plans?

I just noticed that I replied to a zombie thread. Disregard if nothing is pertinent anymore.

I used Schaller tuners. I may have gotten the plans from Djangobooks but I really cannot remember. Collins DVDs or book along with the plans is the way to go imho.