Do you really want your amplified sound to be the same as your natural sound?

[Silly Moustache]

Do I want my amplified sound to be the same as my acoustic / natural sound ?

Yes - absolutely.

When I go my first Collings DS2h dread in 1998, the first thing I did was to take it to a tech to have the most expensive /sophisticated system installed - which then was (I think) a McIntyre Dual source (?) which was a UST plus and internal mic with a little kidney shaped vol/tone pot thingy screed to the soundhole.

The mic was useless so it was mainly just a UST which sounded like all other USTs.

In 2012 I bought a used Collings DS1ASB with a K&K Trinity Pro system (with preamp).

It could sound pretty good but you are ALWAYS at the mercy of whatever the sound system is and who is managing it.

I remember doing a gig with my trio at a large "country music) club - maybe 200 - 250 audience.
the club organiser was no stage knob twirling.
Before we started in front him, I plugged in and put all eq to neutral and all fx off, apart from reverb up until I could hear it then one notch back.
he introduced us, we started.
Fine.
He started knob twirling again.
Horrible.

second song n , I pulled the plug out of my guitar, moved the mics to one side and we did the entire performance completely acoustic.

The audience LOVED IT! Stopped shouting at each other, sat down and LISTENED!

Up until March last year, I'd done that a number of times. It always works! People ...LISTEN.

When necessary 9includng at my club, I use one large condenser mic positioned about two feet away from me and half way between soundhole and mouth..hole. We've lost our bass player and when bob plays mando with me he stands to my right about three feet away from the mic.

It works fine and all my guest artists use the same mic.

everyone comments on how nice the sound is.

I paid a lot of money for guitars that suit my hands and made the best sound I could find.

I used to play in bluegrass bands and they never plugged in and that is probably where I got the microphone method from.

I understand from friends that at bluegrass festivals now everyone plugs in because the art of balancing mics into a p.a seems to have been lost.

My pal Pat (dobro and mandolin), had to start carrying two pedal boards! -for bluegrass?

I don't want to plug in any more.

[EZYPIKINS]

First of all. Your guitars tone is just that. Your guitars tone.

If you put a mic in front of it. You get your guitars tone. Coupled with the EQ curve of the mic.

Next there is another curve of the preamp. Add to that the type of speaker is at the end of the chain.

If you only want to hear the guitar. You need to Bind and gag your audience, so they can't make any noise.

And play as loud as you can.

Some pickups sound better than others. Some amps and or PA's sound better than others.

How loud do you want to be able to get? Are you playing solo? Are you part of a band?

I grew up in a live band. 6 pc minimum. As the only acoustic.

In that situation you need allot of control. Barn door with eq as well as notch filters.

Not only do you need to fight feedback. You need to EQ to make your guitar fit in the mix.

When it fits in the mix of 5 or more other musicians. It's usually not the sound you would like, if playing solo.

If playing solo. You still need to ask yourself. How loud do you want to get?

Are you playing a coffee shop? or an auditorium?

Do you want to be limited with volume level?

I have found my perfect.

Those who know me, know my thoughts.

A pickup system with a mic inside the guitar. Will be prone to feedback.

I don't care whose system it is. It is simple physics.

I play through PA speakers, only. I don't even own an acoustic amp.

I am a singer. I want to amplify my voice in a quality way. Just like my guitar.

I don't use plastic speakers. I don't use anything smaller than a 15" woofer.

1100 watt per JBL 815's and 715's

One speaker will do a room up to 200-300 people.

A couple mains and a monitor will fill a hall 1500ish

Anything larger I'd want a sound co.

Best pickup I've found, Fishman Aura system.

Have three different versions in different guitars. All sound great.

Gain before feedback? I can get them louder than they'll ever need to be without fear of feedback at all.

The Aura system has the most natural sound of any pickup I've tried.

Not limited to, but including the ones mentioned in this thread.

You owe it to yourself to give em a try...

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Do I want my amplified sound to be the same as my acoustic / natural sound ?

Yes - absolutely.

When I go my first Collings DS2h dread in 1998, the first thing I did was to take it to a tech to have the most expensive /sophisticated system installed - which then was (I think) a McIntyre Dual source (?) which was a UST plus and internal mic with a little kidney shaped vol/tone pot thingy screed to the soundhole.

The mic was useless so it was mainly just a UST which sounded like all other USTs.

In 2012 I bought a used Collings DS1ASB with a K&K Trinity Pro system (with preamp).

It could sound pretty good but you are ALWAYS at the mercy of whatever the sound system is and who is managing it.

I remember doing a gig with my trio at a large "country music) club - maybe 200 - 250 audience.
the club organiser was no stage knob twirling.
Before we started in front him, I plugged in and put all eq to neutral and all fx off, apart from reverb up until I could hear it then one notch back.
he introduced us, we started.
Fine.
He started knob twirling again.
Horrible.

second song n , I pulled the plug out of my guitar, moved the mics to one side and we did the entire performance completely acoustic.

The audience LOVED IT! Stopped shouting at each other, sat down and LISTENED!

Up until March last year, I'd done that a number of times. It always works! People ...LISTEN.

When necessary 9includng at my club, I use one large condenser mic positioned about two feet away from me and half way between soundhole and mouth..hole. We've lost our bass player and when bob plays mando with me he stands to my right about three feet away from the mic.

It works fine and all my guest artists use the same mic.

everyone comments on how nice the sound is.

I paid a lot of money for guitars that suit my hands and made the best sound I could find.

I used to play in bluegrass bands and they never plugged in and that is probably where I got the microphone method from.

I understand from friends that at bluegrass festivals now everyone plugs in because the art of balancing mics into a p.a seems to have been lost.

My pal Pat (dobro and mandolin), had to start carrying two pedal boards! -for bluegrass?

I don't want to plug in any more.

In small intimate spaces acoustic is best. But American audiences have lost the art of quiet listening. When, as an American, I used to play Irish music in ex Pat bars in Chicago they knew how to listen. It’s a learned art. We had great sessions.

When I went to other cities to play, they didn’t listen well. Lots of talking over. So I think sound reinforcement is needed in many cases for acoustic music in rooms with passive audiences who don’t know better.

I presume UK audiences are attuned to listening?

[rmeyer7]

As a sound guy/acoustic player, I would say some guitars benefit from not sounding the same plugged in as they do acoustically. One of the guys I do sound for at my church has a Taylor that sounds too bright and midrangey for my taste, but plugged in it sound rich and full.

On the other hand, another guy has a Martin that sounds nice and balanced unplugged, but the plugged-in sound is bright and thin. It can be EQ'd to sound good, but when left flat it doesn't do that guitar any favors.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rmeyer7

As a sound guy/acoustic player, I would say some guitars benefit from not sounding the same plugged in as they do acoustically. One of the guys I do sound for at my church has a Taylor that sounds too bright and midrangey for my taste, but plugged in it sound rich and full.

On the other hand, another guy has a Martin that sounds nice and balanced unplugged, but the plugged-in sound is bright and thin. It can be EQ'd to sound good, but when left flat it doesn't do that guitar any favors.

What pickup was in the Taylor? I find that if a guitar sounds bright to begin with, it will be just that when amplified, assuming the pickup is going after a natural tone.

[tbtxaz21]

I agree with a lot of the above that it will never sound the same plugged in as unplugged. So I don’t try to go for that. But I do want it to sound organic if that makes sense.

It’s hard to describe but I know it when I hear it. And I’ve spent decades chasing it. Probably always will.

[capefisherman]

I readily admit I am no expert in acoustic guitar amplification but if experience means anything, I have five decades of that, playing small cafes in front of a handful of people up to extensive tours with fiddler Marie Rhines in front of audiences of up to 10,000 or more at more festivals than I can remember. I have also owned just about every high-end acoustic amp out there.

I can say this with confidence: the single best investment I have made in all that time was a Grace Alix pre-amp. Being able to sculpt my sound with that amazing device (now using it with a Bose S1 Pro) has yielded that best sound I've ever heard. Is it an exact replication of my various guitars (Martin D-35 Seth Avett, Martin M-36, Martin D-18, Bourgeois OM-150, all with K&K's)? No, of course not. But I receive compliments all the time - from other guitarists! - about the fidelity I get with the Alix.

So, my advice is to give Alix a try. You will be very, very pleased, promise!

Gene

[phil0021]

With all the pup bashing I have heard on this forum I am surprised to see this thread, and especially the comments that “my guitar only louder” is practically unattainable, and that an non-acoustic sound is acceptable or even preferred. Knock me over with a feather. It gave me immense satisfaction and peace when I decided that I didn’t have to have the “my guitar only louder” tone.

[Pnewsom]

it's a funny thing, the fascination with tone.

I've played gigs were the amp broke and I had to play my electric guitar through the pa, and times when the pa broke and I sang through my amp. Sure I hated it, and thought it sounded terrible, but you know what? Nobody else cared. I'd get compliments, and I'd be like...?

Or the times when the band comes back from break and we play three songs before we realize we forgot to put mains faders back up on the pa... only monitors facing the band are happening. Disaster? Nope, there they are up dancing, yelling for more

Folks just don't seem to know or care. They either like you and the tunes you're playing, or they don't.

All this to say, find a rig that gets a tone you can work with and fairly easy to achieve in most places. And the right tunes.