Can we have another vent thread about Taylor's obsession with ES2?

[6L6]

Both of my Taylor acoustics have K&K pups. Far superior to any Taylor system.

[jimmy bookout]

Kinda obvious, but you could just order the guitar you want with NO ES2 from Taylor, save yourself $300, and you'd have the guitar in 3 months.
Being a lefty, a 3 month wait for a guitar to be built would be heaven

[robrick]

I own several Taylor guitars and have owned many more. I love them. Other acoustics just don't do it for me. Get what sounds good to you. Thing is, when something sounds good in your music room or living room, it is a whole other thing when you are playing in a bar, pub or bistro, all with different acoustics, PA systems, and crowd noise. That's when I need a working electronic system that works and is reliable. Subtlety goes out the window. For me, Taylor delivers.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by zmf

Good rant. Enjoyed it. As to your rhetorical question on why Taylor does this -- sorry, I have no answer. I've wondered myself why Taylor thinks most people are going to plug in their guitars.

Because the majority of Taylor owners will and do.

[KevWind]

Sorry but Wade hit the nail on the head and drove it home in one wack.

Taylor makes the configurations in they numbers they do,, because that is what has proven to sell .... Not the other way around .

The notion that Taylor should change this because a few customers don't like Taylors electronics or cut aways, is preposterous, given they offer that option if that is what you want .

The shear arrogance to assume that people buy them because of being duped by marketing and don't know any better, is both preposterous and condescending

[captain_jack]

Originally Posted by Nathan777

What an insightful comment. I wonder if the shops sitting on millions of dollars in unsold new old stock high-end Taylors with ES2 they were forced to take because of dealer agreements would agree.

This is all just my opinion (obviously), but absolutely yes I think retailers would agree. If there was a huge demand for high end Taylors without electronics, these retailers would hear about it from all the disappointed customers in their stores, and would probably pass that feedback on to Taylor. If there was actually a demand, Taylor would do something about it.

Like with most hobbies/activities/interests, the demands of folks on niche internet forums are often different from the demands of the "masses".

[Br1ck]

Taylor knows how to run a business. They convince people they need a pickup and a cut away. Most don't, but that doesn't matter much, it sells guitars. Then as you go up the ladder, people do need them and it's a logical step to buy a better Taylor. I know at least two people who gig with Taylors, not because they are best, but because they work for a lot of situations. Can't fault Taylor for their success. The ES2 system is good. Not the Holy Grail, but good.

[DM3MD]

I remember years ago (15 or so) when this place used to be called the Taylor Guitar Forum. I also remember many people complaining about the early ES systems (the Post-it Note debacle) and the Taylor company was not happy about it at all…and all we were doing was venting about it, just like now…still venting 15 years later.

Proprietary electronics suck. I’ve dealt with this with early Takamines, Ovations and Gibsons. But, you have to remember, we are the minority here. I’ll venture to guess that we are only a fraction of Taylor’s guitar sales in a year. The fact that a customer can buy a guitar AND plug it in is an amazing marketing tool. Above and beyond that, think about it…let’s say Taylor saves $5 per
guitar using their own ES from using their former Fishman-based system…at 75,000 guitars a year…whoa, that’s a lot of cash saved.

I owned the ES2 system for 6 months. I swapped out version 2.1 to 2.2
and then to whatever preamp all trying to find the right combo of gain, anti-feedback, etc. I liked the sound, but there was a problem. Hard to describe but stand in front of a guitarist at 5 feet. Sounds great, right? Now step back and listen to the guitar player at 25 feet. THAT is how the ES2 sounds. There’s a spatial quality to it that I could never dial in the forefront. It always sounded so far away and insignificant.

Sold the guitar and with it, the ES2. I purchased another Taylor with a 20 year old Fishman Matrix. Ironic.

[SpruceTop]

I think the general guitar-playing public has come to expect and accept that a new acoustic guitar will have a pickup/preamp system in it. All you have to do is look at even the $200 imports that come standard with some form of pickup/preamp system in them.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by zmf

That's what I meant. You stated it more accurately. Why does Taylor assume most folks want to plug in Taylor guitars than, say, Martins or Gibsons?

Taylor players usually play with bands.

[DjFuzzyMcPickle]

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

Oh let’s see now…..one of the most successful guitar companies in the history of guitar companies does something that some people don’t like. They are successful for a reason, they know how to appeal to the masses. And I are one of them

I was playing my Taylor 512e this morning, plugged into a Fishman Loudbox Mini and I love the tone, always have. I own other guitars with Baggs sound hole pickups. Baggs Anthem, Schatten HFN, etc. They all sound good to me, different but more then usable.

I am ok with the knobs and the ES2, to each their own and I do hope you find what you want.

Couldn't agree more. I also think the amount of energy spent by some folks who get so twisted up over what they dont like about a certain product sometimes gets a bit comical. I run from my 2 Taylors in pics signature into a Twin City radial DI that sends signal into the 2 amps (pic signature) and have a blast playing with various tones, sounds etc.

And then ironically I'll find people on here with guitars that they acoustically send into pedal boards with 5 -15 effects to get their so-called tone they're chasing. If those pickups were so fantastic that it needed 5 -15 pedals to make it sound great doesn't seem very acoustic or organic to me. Just food for thought not trying to insult anybody's style or flava.

[leew3]

All good stuff here folks. The OP reminds me of Bill Collings having said something along the lines of if he only sold guitars to "musicians" he'd be living under a bridge. Like it or not, most of us are hobbyists and so are the "mass' to which 'mass marketing' is focused.

Taylor's doing great focused on the center of that mass, and has a custom shop for those of us with the patience and cash to get exactly what we want.

[Tnfiddler]

Ok, I must confess! Even though the tone may not be the best pickup tone on the market, the simplicity of battery changes and the control knobs always made me overlook the tone. I’d say the ES system is the most user-friendly of all the active pickups.

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

Taylor knows how to run a business. They convince people they need a pickup and a cut away. Most don't, but that doesn't matter much, it sells guitars. Then as you go up the ladder, people do need them and it's a logical step to buy a better Taylor. I know at least two people who gig with Taylors, not because they are best, but because they work for a lot of situations. Can't fault Taylor for their success. The ES2 system is good. Not the Holy Grail, but good.

I'm curious how Taylor "convinced" people they needed a pickup and a cutaway...

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Taylor players usually play with bands.

What a curious assertion.