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  #16  
Old 12-05-2021, 10:30 AM
SingingSparrow SingingSparrow is offline
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what i will say is that while i greatly appreciate the sentiments by oldguy64 and share them myself, as indicated earlier, there is something to be said about local production and local business.

it is certainly possible (probable?) that my ideas have not evolved as quickly as the phenomenon of globalisation has, sure. that said, i still believe that there is something precious about the 'village experience' - about supporting local artists, artisans, and cultivating and honoring skill-sets in the community.

in this new world, i do believe these simple connections with our neighbours are a vital thing that we are fast losing or already have lost.

i don't have an issue with things being made in china or india etc. heck, i was born in those parts. i am certainly not made in the usa, have lived more of my life outside of here, and i know that there are skilled humans everywhere on this planet.

but perhaps it would be appropriate - and there would be room - to express a bit of sorrow that a company who had managed to keep things local are now moving offshore. where they are moving to is not the issue. but the fact they are having to move outside their community. this has consequences far beyond economy. this ultimately has consequences that contributes to phenomenon that makes strangers out of our own neighbors. this is a process of dehumanization - one we experience every day.

so perhaps there is room to acknowledge this much. it is not about patriotism or whatever. it is simply about being aware of the importance of creating an environment, and contributing to that environment, where one can experience humanity to its fullest. and connectedness with each other and the flora and fauna that surrounds us is/was a primal aspect of being human. let us acknowledge this so that this ordinary awareness can continue live in us and we can pass this important message on to the young ones out there who nary have experiences of community as was common when i was growing up.

i don't know if there is room on this forum for this kind of dialogue, and i can understand if there isn't (a pity, nonetheless, tho). i don't want to argue or debate etc, just want to put this (hopefully gentle) perspective out there. thank you. cheers.

(re offshore quality: you know, there is a team in india called Dehradun Guitars. they are making some kick butt guitars. kick butt guitars that will do well against any of the big luthier names out there, and i don't mean brands like santa cruz or collings but others far more dear and exclusive.)

edit:
all that said, the most important thing in this thread are these beautiful thoughts by oldguy64 that bear repeating:

What I would like to see globally, is peace among mankind.
What would a global brotherhood look like?
What would the music scene look like if we played like we were all human in each other’s eyes?
Wishful thinking I know.
But it could be beautiful.

Last edited by Kerbie; 12-05-2021 at 02:30 PM.
  #17  
Old 12-05-2021, 11:42 AM
mawmow mawmow is offline
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Hard to believe...
I guess it has something to do with the huge workers shortage we are facing up here...
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2021, 12:08 PM
mrjop1975 mrjop1975 is offline
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Every guitar company does eventually do offshore made lines, and Godin isn't really any different. Martin did it in the 70's through early 00's with the Sigma line, Gibson with Epiphone, Guild starting in the early 00's. And there are companies that import in offshore guitars that are based in the States or Canada (my Mackenzie & Marr Opeongo - a brand based is Canada -is made in China.) It doesn't make them any less of a guitar. It was eventual. Hopefully the QC will be top notch so to not soil the Godin reputation. And don't forget that Martin and Taylor have some of there models made in Mexico as well. My own takeaway from all this for what it's worth.
  #19  
Old 12-05-2021, 12:39 PM
RvrDxn RvrDxn is offline
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This is an excellent post and you tastefully and articulately stated a position that many people to varying degrees agree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingSparrow View Post
what i will say is that while i greatly appreciate the sentiments by oldguy64 and share them myself, as indicated earlier, there is something to be said about local production and local business.

it is certainly possible (probable?) that my ideas have not evolved as quickly as the phenomenon of globalisation has, sure. that said, i still believe that there is something precious about the 'village experience' - about supporting local artists, artisans, and cultivating and honoring skill-sets in the community.

in this new world, i do believe these simple connections with our neighbours are a vital thing that we are fast losing or already have lost.

i don't have an issue with things being made in china or india etc. heck, i was born in those parts. i am certainly not made in the usa, have lived more of my life outside of here, and i know that there are skilled humans everywhere on this planet.

but perhaps it would be appropriate - and there would be room - to express a bit of sorrow that a company who had managed to keep things local are now moving offshore. where they are moving to is not the issue. but the fact they are having to move outside their community. this has consequences far beyond economy. this ultimately has consequences that contributes to phenomenon that makes strangers out of our own neighbors. this is a process of dehumanization - one we experience every day.

so perhaps there is room to acknowledge this much. it is not about patriotism or whatever. it is simply about being aware of the importance of creating an environment, and contributing to that environment, where one can experience humanity to its fullest. and connectedness with each other and the flora and fauna that surrounds us is/was a primal aspect of being human. let us acknowledge this so that this ordinary awareness can continue live in us and we can pass this important message on to the young ones out there who nary have experiences of community as was common when i was growing up.

i don't know if there is room on this forum for this kind of dialogue, and i can understand if there isn't (a pity, nonetheless, tho). i don't want to argue or debate etc, just want to put this (hopefully gentle) perspective out there. thank you. cheers.

(re offshore quality: you know, there is a team in india called Dehradun Guitars. they are making some kick butt guitars. kick butt guitars that will do well against any of the big luthier names out there, and i don't mean brands like santa cruz or collings but others far more dear and exclusive.)

edit:
all that said, the most important thing in this thread are these beautiful thoughts by oldguy64 that bear repeating:

What I would like to see globally, is peace among mankind.
What would a global brotherhood look like?
What would the music scene look like if we played like we were all human in each other’s eyes?
Wishful thinking I know.
But it could be beautiful.

Last edited by Kerbie; 12-05-2021 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Removed political comment.
  #20  
Old 12-05-2021, 02:20 PM
Photojeep Photojeep is offline
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My opinion, for what it's worth, is people should buy what they want and can afford. I don't know too many people (none actually) who would argue that point. I believe it's the verbalization of WHY they buy/like certain things is when we get into trouble.

If I know saying something will upset someone else, I feel it's my responsibility to keep my pie-hole shut. You should not be forced to hear my reasons for my purchases just like I shouldn't have to hear why you buy what you buy.

Best,
PJ
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2021, 04:01 PM
Taylor Ham Taylor Ham is offline
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i was frankly surprised that Godin managed to keep production in North America at that pricepoint for so long. Best wishes to them for the new venture.
  #22  
Old 12-06-2021, 08:52 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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I'd like to see the official announcement from Godin vs someone saw a Facebook group discussion which spurred this.

I did an internet search the only hits about godin moving operations are to this AGF discussion.
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2021, 09:25 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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We do really live in the Golden Age of affordable instruments...but I imagine too, there is a struggle to keep them affordable.

My guess is wherever Godin moves production to, you won't see a dip in quality.
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2021, 09:59 AM
Photojeep Photojeep is offline
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A couple years ago I was told by a guitar dealer that Godin received financial support from the Canadian government. I have no idea if that's true but from my standpoint it was one way to explain their quality and suprisingly low prices.

Perhaps the Canadian government has stopped this support so Godin has to do this to keep themselves competitive?

Just a thought.

Best,
PJ
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2021, 10:13 AM
JERZEY JERZEY is offline
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Godin wants very badly to do well in the EU market. They dont have the greatest reputation over there though do to pretty poor support. Getting them to replace a defective unit is almost impossible. You are lucky if you can get 50 Euro for a bridge lift repair. IMO this has been coming for a long time.

Last edited by Kerbie; 12-06-2021 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Removed politics
  #26  
Old 12-06-2021, 10:54 AM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkstott View Post
I'd like to see the official announcement from Godin vs someone saw a Facebook group discussion which spurred this.

I did an internet search the only hits about godin moving operations are to this AGF discussion.
Here's one of the made in China guitars on their new website:

https://artandlutherieguitars.com/pr...acy-natural-eq

I'm not sure how this is going to work out for Godin. There are just too many changes: Laminated mahogany rather than the cherry/maple/cherry Canadian plywood (the tone of their guitars since they started building). Mahogany neck rather than Canadian maple necks. 1 11/16" nut rather than 1.75". Looks like a change to the neck joint and bracing. The sections of the A&L website covering "Sustainability" (Canadian woods - fallen not felled) and "Features" (integrated neck, compound curve top, heel reinforcement, finish lacquer etc) have been removed. So has the details on scale length.

The new Natural EQ range looks a little too generic for my liking. I can't see what you are getting that's any different from a Recording King or similar.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2021, 11:01 AM
SingingSparrow SingingSparrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin, Wales View Post
The sections of the A&L website covering "Sustainability" (Canadian woods - fallen not felled) and "Features" (integrated neck, compound curve top, heel reinforcement, finish lacquer etc) have been removed.
that is a profound bummer.
  #28  
Old 12-06-2021, 11:08 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Sounds almost like they're rebranding their Chinese producer already had available?

On the upside ...the resale value of the instruments we already own my start going up now
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2021, 01:09 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingingSparrow View Post
that is a profound bummer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
Sounds almost like they're rebranding their Chinese producer already had available?

On the upside ...the resale value of the instruments we already own my start going up now
The good news is that it appears to be only the Natural EQ models within the A&L range that are being made in China. All of the usual A&L models are still made in Canada. And none of the other Godin brands are affected.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2021, 04:17 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin, Wales View Post
Here's one of the made in China guitars on their new website:

https://artandlutherieguitars.com/pr...acy-natural-eq

I'm not sure how this is going to work out for Godin. There are just too many changes: Laminated mahogany rather than the cherry/maple/cherry Canadian plywood (the tone of their guitars since they started building). Mahogany neck rather than Canadian maple necks. 1 11/16" nut rather than 1.75". Looks like a change to the neck joint and bracing. The sections of the A&L website covering "Sustainability" (Canadian woods - fallen not felled) and "Features" (integrated neck, compound curve top, heel reinforcement, finish lacquer etc) have been removed. So has the details on scale length.

The new Natural EQ range looks a little too generic for my liking. I can't see what you are getting that's any different from a Recording King or similar.
Alhtough I sure appreciate the Godin instruments I own, I've gotten the casual impression that their read of the market has them moving away from some of the things I like about them. Back when the models I own, made as they were then, came out I fear a lot of folks heard them as sounding different (shorter scale, cedar and the classic wild cherry sandwich) and read that difference as a fault. Also the burly necks, which I love but many aren't that enamored of.
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