K&K Pure Mini-- least invasive/best sounding?

[baseball]

I Just got my first acoustic gig in years scheduled at the end of the month. I want to sound good BUT I also want to use my OM28 that doesn't currently have a PUP in her.... I LOVE her the way she is and don't want to change her too much.

I have 2 other guitars with the Baggs Anthem and Lyric in them...The Lyric made my dread feel heavier and the anthem has always sort of clicked around in there and the battery pack never stays put...

I notice that most guys with nicer high end-ish guitars tend to use the K&K pure mini. What are the Pro's and Cons???

any of you regular gigging guys got any other input (no pun LOL) ..something or brand I might be overlooking??

Thanks!!

[Gordon Currie]

James May Ultratonic takes the K+K Pure Mini and eliminates all the negatives while retaining all the positives. There is no downside to this pickup - other than it is a bit more expensive.

With this pickup, it may be your last. You won't need to upgrade.

[jseth]

Dazzo pickups are in both my 6 and 12 string guitars now... passive, so nothing inside the guitar except the lightweight transducers that affix to the bridgeplate. A bit more expensive than the K&K, but they sound head-and-shoulders better than the K&K I had in my Goodall Grand Concert.

With the Dazzos, I don't feel I need an additional preamp, save for whatever is in the mixer I use (Bose T1 Tonematch)... I don't even have to EQ the signal one bit!

With the K&K I had, I never did get a "great" tone from it... try as I might, with the T1, the K&K PURE XLR, or a combination of both. It was okay, but only just...

Only issue with the Dazzo would be getting one installed by next weekend! Call Teddy (he's generally available and happy to talk) and see what he says. Don't know where you are located, but there's a decent chance that someone in your area has experience with installing Dazzos. Be sure they follow (or are willing to follow) Teddy's recommendations on the install.

[Brent Hahn]

Running live sound, the most consistently successful combo I've seen is the K&K Pure mini with one or the other of their little outboard preamps.

[Br1ck]

With time constraints you are going to end up with a K&K. Better have a pre amp with a lot of EQ. I'm a firm believer in Dazzos, and have taken K&Ks out of a guitar. Couldn't stand them. But there are more of them out there than anything else. A lot of people swear by them.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by baseball

I Just got my first acoustic gig in years scheduled at the end of the month. I want to sound good BUT I also want to use my OM28 that doesn't currently have a PUP in her.... I LOVE her the way she is and don't want to change her too much.

I have 2 other guitars with the Baggs Anthem and Lyric in them...The Lyric made my dread feel heavier and the anthem has always sort of clicked around in there and the battery pack never stays put...

I notice that most guys with nicer high end-ish guitars tend to use the K&K pure mini. What are the Pro's and Cons???

any of you regular gigging guys got any other input (no pun LOL)...something or brand I might be overlooking??

Thanks!!

Hi b-ball…
I'd first suggest you have two with pickups in them that would leave you not bemoaning the fact you violated the OM just for one concert.

Why do something that the audience won't care about? Will installing it make you feel better? Will it make you sound better?

I'm one of the guys who has high-end guitars with K&K Pure Mini in every one of them. Mine also have an internal mic…(which is currently being used only for backup).

I've been using a ToneDexter for the past 2 yrs with just the Mini…an additional $400 expense, and a re-educational experience (combined with mini recording sessions to capture your guitar's tone).

I've used the K&Ks with and without internal mics, and always with preamps, and they are easy to mix and setup.

They are never going to sound like 'your' guitar exactly.
But they are way more guitar-like than any piezo or magnetic rig I've played.

They are responsive to your touch, and unless you drop your hand onto the bridge (as a rhythmic technique) they are friendly to guitar body taps-n-thunks (deliberate ones).

They have the hottest output signal of other passive pickups which makes them less noisy in PA systems. The audience will never hear that, and only you and the sound man will know.

When I'm mixing sound for open-mic style events, I'm always pleased when someone shows up with a K&K Pure mini (frequent around here). I carry a spare preamp just for those players.

K&K Pure Mini are bass-heavy and treble-light, which means you need to be able to turn the low end down, and then trebles will not likely be piercing…the audience is happy that it sounds like a guitar.

It also means the sound is warm, and rather pleasant.

Chop the HiPass (low cut) at 80hz, and anti-feedback (if needed) often falls at 110 or 220hz (the A string & it's octave).

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[fwphoto]

I recently converted the K&K in my OM-21 to a James May Ultra Tonic & was immediately impressed. As much as I've loved the K&K, the Ultra Tonic is better in every way. I'm having the bridgepalte on my older D-18 replaced with a smaller maple bridgeplate & replacing the K&K that is currently on the large rosewood bridgepalte with a V3 Ultra Tonic. Yeah, its that good.

Frank

[baseball]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi b-ball…
I'd first suggest you have two with pickups in them that would leave you not bemoaning the fact you violated the OM just for one concert.

Why do something that the audience won't care about? Will installing it make you feel better? Will it make you sound better?

That's a great question. I have two OM's (my favorite guitar as far as comfort) A Blueridge with a baggs element and the Martin with nothing.

They are both great guitars but the Martin is set up medium action with 12-53, while the Blueridge is set up easy action with 11-52's. I bought the Blueridge that way from a session guy and I left it with it's Butter set up for playing uber difficult pieces.

The Martin has a little more 'fight' in it so I can dig in. I like it for hard hitting strummy stuff...like hammering piano chords

Maybe it won't make much difference since it's amplified anyways??

This is just my First show in a long time, but I am hoping to play a lot more.

The guy who got me booked is himself an artist. He told me NOT to use any pre-amps or boxes,as he also knows the venue sound guys and what they like.

[kevinplarson]

I can’t say good enough things about the LR Baggs Voiceprint DI. It basically makes an IR for your guitar. It DOES allow your pickup output to sound like YOUR GUITAR. It’s amazing. And you set it all up on a smartphone. I use it with a K&K and I love it.

https://youtu.be/8w6_OdaY4Z8

[Mandobart]

With the time crunch I would go to a decent music shop and try out a few soundhole pickups. Easy peazy, not permanent, IME will sound at least as good as a piezo.

It's never been good for me to do a rush job or settle for something I didn't really want.

That all said.....much to the consternation and dread of fellow AGFer's, I've installed and run JJB SBT's in multiple instruments, installed with low tack putty. Sounds good, easy, and nearly as removable as a soundhole pickup if you ever want to change it out. My oldest install was over 10 years ago and I've had zero problems with any of them.

[Don W]

I have the K&K pure mini in my Larrivee L09 and it is awesome. What I wanted was something that just made my guitar louder without changing the beautiful tone of the guitar and adding anything that would affect its sound when played without amplification. I play through a fishman loud box mini...a perfect match.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by fwphoto

I recently converted the K&K in my OM-21 to a James May Ultra Tonic & was immediately impressed. As much as I've loved the K&K, the Ultra Tonic is better in every way. I'm having the bridgepalte on my older D-18 replaced with a smaller maple bridgeplate & replacing the K&K that is currently on the large rosewood bridgepalte with a V3 Ultra Tonic. Yeah, its that good.

Frank

What did the ultra tonic add that the K&K lacked.
I have one guitar with the dual source k&K (mic and mini with onboard pre)
Would the ultra tonic work in this set up.

I also have another guitar with a passive K&K and thinking of converting it to the dual source with on board pre.. Same question.

[jonfields45]

I vote Ultra Tonic. It is as radical a new/good idea as the Baggs Anthem once was, completely passive, and probably a stronger output compared to the direct competitors due to the size of the main element.

Everything else being suggested is more fine tuning of a SBT that Takamine figured out was a good idea 50 years ago.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Everything else being suggested is more fine tuning of a SBT that Takamine figured out was a good idea 50 years ago.

What do you mean here? The Takamine system is not really a SBT, it's built directly into the bridge. I have always wanted someone to come out with a system that competes with it but the it's quite an invasive system. I think the closest anyone has gotten was Lr Baggs with their IMIX pickup. Nothing like the palathetic Takamine system, but the combination of a UST and SBT seem to get similar results.

[fwphoto]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

What did the ultra tonic add that the K&K lacked.
I have one guitar with the dual source k&K (mic and mini with onboard pre)
Would the ultra tonic work in this set up.

I also have another guitar with a passive K&K and thinking of converting it to the dual source with on board pre.. Same question.

I've been using K&K minis in my guitars for a number of years with great success. Took a little work but I've gotten a pretty good sound from them. I recently converted my K&K equipped OM-21 to the Ultra Tonic, though, & highly recommend it. (Not affiliated to James May in any way. :-) Mine was the standard K&K mini so I really have no experience to talk about the dual source version. I used to run my K&K equipped guitars straight to a DI box then off to the house, but now run through an outboard pre/effects pedal first. I like the totally passive nature of the Ultra Tonic. Not a fan of onboard stuff that needs batteries or phantom power to operate.

http://jamesmayengineering.com


I run the Ultra Tonic through a Polytune3 tuner/mute into a Fishman ToneDEQ. String-to-string balance has been improved greatly over the K&K & the bottom end boomy-ness, at least with my OM-21, has been eliminated. Until the Ultra Tonic conversion I needed a soundhole cover to control the feedback in a loud band setting but I've now been able to remove it & have zero feedback issues. I do very little EQ adjustment on the ToneDEQ but I'm still playing around with it a bit. It's darn good nearly flat with the low cut filter set at 80 Hz. I also add some compressor & the sound quality from my guitar has been great! Last week the guy on the board was very complimentary of my sound!

I have been really please with the K&K/Ultra Tonic conversion in the OM-21. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the conversion. Your onboard pre would probably go away with the additional passive electronics mounted on the Ultra Tonic's endpin, but it does include a soundhole mounted volume dial.

There is room to add a secondary source but not an active one. Not sure what the dual source K&K has. Again, you'd probably have to ditch the onboard pre.

I was going to convert the K&K in my old D-18 to an Ultra Tonic, but in the meantime decided to replace it's current large rosewood bridgeplate with a small maple one so I'm going to just go ahead & install the standard V3 Ultra Tonic instead. I'm really looking forward to getting it back in service!

Does it sound just like my guitar only louder? No. Does sound like a really great acoustic guitar amplified? Absolutely!

Take care,

Frank