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  #16  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:17 PM
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murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Both products are made from paper layers in resin, according to their press, which is why I thought them similar.
Bruce, I don't know how you come by the idea that Rocklite is made from paper layers in resin.

Richlite is made from paper layers in resin, just as all previous similar products have been, such as Ebanol and Garolite, and these products do have a synthetic feel to them.

Rocklite however is the product of a totally different manufacturing process, wherein long strands of real wood are dyed black and amalgamated under pressure to produce Rocklite "EBANO", a substance which has minimal resin content compared to previous "similar" products, and maximum wood content.

There are plenty testimonies available online from experienced luthiers regarding the outstanding properties Rocklite as a luthiery (or "lutherie") material. Not so many testimonies regarding the use of Richlite.

Nobody would dispute your right to totally forego using anything but real ebony in your instruments, but I would respectfully suggest that you should not blandly equate Richlite and Rocklite .... they are two different animals, albeit they share an annoyingly similar sounding name.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:23 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Bruce, I don't know how you come by the idea that Rocklite is made from paper layers in resin.

Richlite is made from paper layers in resin, just as all previous similar products have been, such as Ebanol and Garolite, and these products do have a synthetic feel to them.

Rocklite however is the product of a totally different manufacturing process, wherein long strands of real wood are dyed black and amalgamated under pressure to produce Rocklite "EBANO", a substance which has minimal resin content compared to previous "similar" products, and maximum wood content.

There are plenty testimonies available online from experienced luthiers regarding the outstanding properties Rocklite as a luthiery (or "lutherie") material. Not so many testimonies regarding the use of Richlite.

Nobody would dispute your right to totally forego using anything but real ebony in your instruments, but I would respectfully suggest that you should not blandly equate Richlite and Rocklite .... they are two different animals, albeit they share an annoyingly similar sounding name.
I googled Rocklite and read about it on their website. That's how I learned that they are in Britain, and that they use paper laminates. Then I went to Richlite's site and read similar info. Or, I'm crazy, but that's what I THINK happened. I personally want nothing to do with either product, and certainly have no dog in the fight. They appear to be similar solutions to a problem that may one day exist, hopefully I will be gone by then. Please do not speed me on my way in case I have made an error in my research.
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:34 PM
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So I went back to google and could not replicate my findings. I did find a line in their website that say it is NOT vulcanized paper, and sadly they put "NOT" at the end of a line and "Vulcanized paper" on it's own line below. Thus reading fast I may have missed the "NOT". In any case, they are clearly not the same solution to the problem that may one day exist , and I apologize to any who took offense at my error.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:20 AM
geordie1 geordie1 is offline
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I have bound with ebony, but with new modern engineered woods, there is no need to anymore.

Rocklite is rather like a number of products that come from Europe and now China. It is an engineered wood. It is not paper.

Cheap, low value logs are rotary peeled to form veneer. The veneer is cut into large sheets and dyed. The dyed sheets are stacked and glued under pressure. The new block of material is rotated 90' and recut into boards or even veneer again. Amazing process. I did see a video on YouTube from a Chinese factory on the process, but I didn't bookmark it.

It's possible that Rocklite is being made by either Alpi or Tabu, two companies who have pioneered this material in the furniture trade for the last 15-20 years or so.

http://www.alpiwood.com/en/index.php

http://www.tabu.it

Or it may be made by another firm. Most of the big veneer firms have their own version of it now. Reliance Veneer of Hackney (the biggest veneer makers in the UK) have one for example)

You will see the veneer version of this stuff on kitchens everywhere - it's perfect for those who work with sheet materials - it looks nice, is flat and comes in huge sheets.

You can buy a similar (though coarser looking) material from China.

http://treezogroup.suppliers.howtoad...ny-veneer.html

I've been using a version of this stuff for the last couple of years for head veneers, bindings and bridges. Lacquered, it looks like ebony, but it bends easily and glues like wood - because it is wood. For bridges, it allows me to reduce mass yet retain the look people want - it looks like very good, dense ebony.



Yep, no need to use ebony unless you really enjoy snapping wood. Years ago we had a famous German purfling maker make us a large batch of ebony binding with simple purfling. Most of them snapped or delaminated. Never had that problem with the engineered version.



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  #20  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:06 AM
geordie1 geordie1 is offline
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Here is a video on engineered wood:






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  #21  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:27 PM
geordie1 geordie1 is offline
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Here is another shot of "engineered" ebony - If you can't tell by now, I'm a big fan - I like the idea of a wood material which gives a similar look but without the environmental damage. That's a difficult thing to achieve in guitar making. So many "alternative" woods lack commercial appeal. You can make a guitar from an alternative wood, but selling it for your regular price is another matter...



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  #22  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:18 AM
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It looks like LMII is stocking Rocklite now. They sound quite enthusiastic about it.
http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-...e-fingerboards
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  #23  
Old 09-27-2018, 12:40 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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In response to the OP... Ebony is challenging to bind without splitting, but can be done with good cuts of wood. Thinning a bit more than Indian rosewood, for example, is a fine idea.

Regarding Richlite... Is that what Martin uses in many of their newer guitars for f.boards??

At any rate, if Richlite is indeed simply compressed wood grain with only a slight bit of binding cement, then it is in fact the same thing as paper, but manufactured with the addition of pressure during the process.
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