Do we REALLY want natural sound while plugged in?

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Do we really want a natural sound when performing? .

This is a very good question. As you can see it depends on the person. I like to perceive the sound that the audience is actually hearing. That's not easy for the guitarist/performer to do. A guitar is rarely dry in a performing situation and room. The sound has allot of competition like the acoustics of the room, refrigerators, coolers, people talking and moving around. All that muddies up the sound. To add more reverb, bass and chorus can only muddy it up even more. But to each his own.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Because (IMO) you can't even get close to a decent acoustic sound with electric, even with modules.

We not be able to achieve a great acoustic sound from our acoustic guitars at amplified gigs, but that does not mean the goal/desire is diminished for many of us. Otherwise, I'd just play a Rickenbacker 330 (for one excellent example IME) and go for a nice, clean sound. I agree that reverb can be a nice "enhancement", depending on the venue's acoustics. For that, I look no further than my wonderful Strymon Flint.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Do we really want a natural sound when performing?

For me, yes. I add a little reverb and some light compression though.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Do we really want a natural sound when performing? Perhaps sometimes, but if nothing else, I can't imagine going back to a totally dry sound.

If we did we'd just use mics.......

[fitness1]

Been chasing it for 40 years now.....I hope there is a reason!

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

If we did we'd just use mics.......

This.
I went through USTs, int mics, combination mic & USTs, B-bands, and a few years ago I bought a used Collings with K&K plus int mic. Yeah it sounds better than anything before, but it still didn't sound "just" like that Collings.

I switched to using my Rode NT-1 (original) and still do - just one mic for voice and guitar. No fx, flat eq. everyone says It sounds great.

I'm sorry but a plugged in acoustic is an electric guitar that might, just, sound a bit like an acoustic (but not like my acoustics)..

[Tico]

Yes, I REALLY want my acoustic to sound natural.

Mics sound natural.
Pickups don't.

I hate being handcuffed to a mic stand so I must plug my guitar in.
That's why DPA's 4099G @ $619 is the perfect solution.
It's a tiny shotgun condenser mic on a gooseneck that you clip onto your guitar.

No holes to drill.
No installation to pay for.
No internal batteries to leak, or that require string removal to change.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-mounting-clip


$619 seems expensive but it's actually cheaper since I need only one for all seven of my acoustics.
I can move it between guitars in 10 seconds.
Even if I had only one guitar would still be worth the price.
The sound is as pure and natural as that of a fine studio condenser, because that's what it is.

00 4099.jpg

[mawmow]

I love natural acoustic sound...
Wanted my Taylor 510 amplified : I was suggested K&K combo piezzo and mic. I alway put the piezzo off !!!
Got a used GS-5 with ES : Now know why they went to ES II !!!
Tried LR Baggs combo : turned the piezzo off also !

Finally heard John Hammond Jr say about his playing before microphones :
"I am sorry, but when it is electrified, it is no longer acoustic".
I agree.

Got a Shure SM-57 mic (once the best on market...) plugged in a Behringer 1800FX (a keyboard amp... a long story...) and I clearly prefer that over any pickup I tried.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

Most of my gigs are outdoors, and it was just a year ago that I first played with a soundhole pickup on a breezy day in a windy venue. ...I've picked up my first acoustic/electric, the Breedlove, which has a LR Baggs Element (under saddle) pickup. Properly equalized, it's not a natural acoustic sound, but it's a great acoustic/electric sound. And it gives me tremendous freedom when performing because I don't have to keep the soundhole eight inches from the mike. That freedom translates into better performances.

Jamming with friends in a living room calls for a different sound than playing an outdoor venue at a festival.

I have to agree with you. I would love to be mic'd but it would restrict my freedom and performance. And like you, if I can't get a great natural sound I want a great amplified sound, albeit different from the natural sound. For a different environment I'm going to grab my D35. I recently participated in an acoustic performance which was only electronically "reinforced" to allow the natural sounds of the acoustics come through in a small setting. On the rehearsal day I had my 814 which just didn't cut it. For the performance I had my D35 with a Seymour Duncan Woody XL soundhole pickup which did the trick. The D35 was a MUCH better choice for that. When I do living room jams I'll almost always grab my Martin.

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

This is a very good question. As you can see it depends on the person. I like to perceive the sound that the audience is actually hearing. That's not easy for the guitarist/performer to do. A guitar is rarely dry in a performing situation and room. The sound has allot of competition like the acoustics of the room, refrigerators, coolers, people talking and moving around. All that muddies up the sound. To add more reverb, bass and chorus can only muddy it up even more. But to each his own.

You're right of course. The situation I find myself in is in a room where 200 is standing room, usually getting no less than 75 and often 100-150 people. The room isn't particularly live and must have been designed with the room acoustics in mind, with oak floors and oak walls and tall ceiling of a pyramid shape. Seats are usually upholstered seats with arms. But yeah, it's a little hard to tell from where I'm standing, but we're often streamed and the direct stream is quite dry. I know that a chorus can help separate me (when appropriate) when other acoustic guitars are present. Reverb? Not sure yet. Sure sounds good in my small bedroom studio.

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

We not be able to achieve a great acoustic sound from our acoustic guitars at amplified gigs, but that does not mean the goal/desire is diminished for many of us. Otherwise, I'd just play a Rickenbacker 330 (for one excellent example IME) and go for a nice, clean sound. I agree that reverb can be a nice "enhancement", depending on the venue's acoustics. For that, I look no further than my wonderful Strymon Flint.

Strymon as you know is the gold standard of reverbs. I couldn't justify the cost of a Strymon. I thought the TCE HOF2 at $100 for a decent reverb with programability that sells for $150 wasn't too bad an option. It also comes with a "smash" feature that is like a built in expression pedal. I haven't had a chance to use it live yet. I was supposed to play acoustic this Friday but got moved to bass because of too many guitarists coming.

Originally Posted by Mandobart

If we did we'd just use mics.......

I'm thinking about that. Were that to become a reality, what do you think would be better (from the following selections)?: SM57, SM58, AKG P420, AKG P170? I'm not sure what else is available.

[tippy5]

I was hired by a traveling pro years ago to gig with him for a duo. He came over and saw my setup and was really happy with the tone. I was playing a laminated back and side J 55 Gibson through a Line 6 Flextone III (2003). I could tell he was hooked by my crafted tone (32 parameters could be tweaked). I really like a little delay under a mostly dry signal so you barely hear the time based sound. It gives the acoustic a sense of airiness and just general ear candy tone.

I am really liking my Tech 21 FLY RIG these days. But I still remember gigging with a strummer and that Flextone amp. Now I have more potent guitars with a nice woody tone that I can hybrid play. But your inquiry reminds me of my 15 years ago tone signal. That nice plain strumming with a little chorus, delay and compression.

[MIGAS79]

I had never been a huge fan of plugged in acoustics. It just so happens my J-45 has a Baggs Anthem though. I was blown away by how true to the guitar’s natural sound it can be even through my Fishman Loudbox Mini I picked up cheap (used). I don’t gig, but it’s fun to run it through my electric board.

Just today I was playing and thinking I should try some different picks to limit string noise even more.

[jbeecham]

Amplifying an acoustic guitar is a matter of necessity. It isn't done to make the guitar sound better. I have never heard an amplified acoustic that sounds unamplified. But, that doesn't mean it can't sound good. I have always admired the sound Paul Simon gets from his amplified acoustic guitar.

Jerry

[tryitout]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

If we did we'd just use mics.......

Not really an option in many bands.

[Petty1818]

Difficult question to answer. I personally find that a lot of members on here (this is just going from reading posts), often play in solo or duo situations where natural tones are best. For me, I play in a celtic band where the most natural tone is not the best fit. My main things I need in a pickup are; one, it sounds nice a round/fat and two, it's at least somewhat amplifying the characteristics of my guitar. That's often a difficult thing to find but we have a lot of options now; UST + Tonedexter, Anthem or some type of UST/mag and internal mic or SBT pickups.

With that said, I used my HFN last weekend and realized that yes the Tonedexter might just give it a bit more air but it would be such a small improvement that it just doesn't warrant the extra work. I am more so going in the direct of less is more or at least less is easier for me to tweak and set up on the fly.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by semolinapilcher

Solo, or acoustic duo? Yes.

Most other situations? Usually not.

I remember as a kid watching TV as various artists started out their tunes on an acoustic-guitar-only solo basis. When the band came in, instantly the acoustic guitar would be totally gone... absorbed into the mix.

You have to tweak your sound to be heard.

I agree very much with this, but would add that its also dependent on how large an area you want to be heard in. Very clean, natural sounding amps and speakers seem to get extremely expensive when you need to cover large areas, so you usually find loud but not terribly good amps and speakers. In which case, why worry about nuances of the acoustic sound? And if you are playing with others on electric guitar/bass/keyboard plus a drummer, then you need to get thru the mix, and any acoustic tone is pretty much lost -