Rewriting Other's Songs

[Mr. Jelly]

Strollin' on the boulevards of Paris
Naked as the day that I will die
The sailors, they're so charming there in Paris
But I just don't seem to sail you off my mind


This verse is often not mentioned as a verse of "Honky Tonk Woman" on the internet. But it is.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by pvfederico

However, I feel very strongly about the direction that music has taken under the new "singer/songwriters," and just had to comment on this thread.

I see that. This is your first post. Good to hear from you.

I'm a little unclear about who you mean. You say "the new singer/songwriters." Do you mean the current crop of young people, or everyone since Dylan?

The other day I was visiting a guitar company's website and clicked through to a video of a singer/songwriter from their signature artists page, a young woman of whom I had not previously heard. (I'm not naming names because I don't want to be accused of being mean.) Her song (as far as I could see, she had only one) was lyrically tedious, just a long scold to the listener for stereotyping her and not seeing her as herself. Maudlin and self-absorbed, like a high school poet.

It's not something that would hold my interest, but I imagine it has an audience among other people whose current conception of depth and emotion is similar to hers. That's okay. She made that music for them, not for me, and I wish her well. But if she's writing the same songs when she's fifty, that will be a shame.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

And what about classic folks songs like "Streets of Laredo" ... ?

I prefer the Smothers Brothers version. Short and snappy:

As I walked out in the streets of Laredo
As I walked out in Laredo one day
I spied a young cowboy all dressed in white linen
Dressed in white linen as cold as the clay.

I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy
I see by your outfit you are a cowboy too.
We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys
If you get an outfit, you can be a cowboy too.

It's a joke, but it's a good joke, and it actually is on topic here if you think about it. They're gently lampooning both the song and the genre, and the lyric change facilitated that.

[pvfederico]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

I see that. This is your first post. Good to hear from you.

I'm a little unclear about who you mean. You say "the new singer/songwriters." Do you mean the current crop of young people, or everyone since Dylan?

I simply mean that just because a guy or gal is a famous entertainer, doesn't mean that he/she has to be a songwriter. It's a different talent. But, apparently today there is more status attached to the tile "singer/songwriter" and hence a lot of talented singers are allowed to record their own crap. It's why, I believe, music has generally declined in quality since early Dylan.

Are there some great singer/songwriters today? Of course.

The first time I played and sang the song "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," I had difficulty getting through the lyrics because they're so bad. I still never sing the chorus because, by my standards, it's just plain dumb.

One interesting phrase ("while my guitar gently weeps") does not make a good song. In my opinion GH could have built a wonderful song around this phrase. The melody is fine, and he had a good organizational concept -- but he didn't have anything to say, and just wasn't literate enough to put a little poetry into the song. I love playing the song, but wish that someone would re-write the lyrics.

If he had handed this song off to Paul McCartney, the world would have had a much better song.

When I listen to the lyrics of songs that were professionally written for Frank Sinatra, I am blown away. The lyrics are so fabulous! Very few singer/songwriters today come close to what the professional songwriters of the past could do.

Many bands today are comprised of high school drop outs. Does anyone really expect them to write like a person educated in literature and poetry at the university level. Of course not. But if they make it big, some of their own silly crap often gets recorded.

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

Sometimes changing the words is necessary to avoid things getting weird. For example: the song "Someday Soon." In the popular Suzy Bogguss version, it's from the point of view of a young woman in love with a rodeo rider. If I sang it as she recorded it, I would be an old man in love with a rodeo rider, which is not at all the story the song wishes to tell. So I sing it from the point of view of the rodeo rider. "Her parents cannot stand me, 'cause I ride the rodeo. Her father says that I will leave her crying. But she would follow me right down the roughest road I know. Someday soon, she's goin' with me, someday soon."

I first heard Ian sing this song during "The Great Folk Scare" in the early sixties and it never struck me as "things getting weird". I suppose that if he'd felt uncomfortable he could have let Sylvia sing it, but I'm glad he did it his way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

I feel that I'm playing a part when I sing a song. I would never think of changing the words of House Of The Rising Sun from, "It's been the ruin of many poor girl," to, "It's been the ruin of many poor boy," even though I realise that there are male prostitutes. Most male singers (Woody Guthrie, Dave Van Ronk, Bob Dylan, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Josh White. . .) sing it from the point of view of a woman trapped in a life of prostitution.

I love Steve Goodman's version of Penny Evans. He doesn't seem to mind singing, "My name is Penny Evans. . ."

[3notes]

As I read this thread one thing comes to mind..... All the singers who have butchered the National Anthem. Drives me nuts.

I have a strong opinion about this stuff. It is rare that I ever like a song being covered. I've been to open mics and it can be painful listening to the amateurs.

I was camping a month ago and I was invited to a campsite where a guy plays guitar, as do I. I didn't know what to expect. I played an original and I was very happy with how it came out. That was it. For the next hour it was ALL him, singing and playing cover songs like he was some sort of a star. It was all horrible. The hour was full of the same strumming pattern and him singing someone else's lyrics. I wanted to leave after the 2nd song but he never gave me an opening to leave. Or a chance to play another song of my own. Man, he was conceited. Stuck on himself. It was no fun at all.

Call me a purest. When I hear amateurs play and sing covers, 95% of the time it's ugly. I play all originals and wish everyone would. Fat chance of that happening. I feel that all songs have an introduction. That introduction, an instrumental, should be a clear indicator of what the song is. Far too often this doesn't happen. As a matter of fact, the guy that's stuck on himself, it was often I couldn't recognize the song until the chorus came around. Shameful if you ask me.

[Mandobart]

I'm a former submarine sailor. Cursing to me can be eloquent and imaginative. I've had a lot of practice at it. However, I have subtly changed lyrics to remove profane/vulgar words when I see youngsters in the audience.

I've also added what I consider improved lyrics. An example is Slaid Cleaves' "Flowered Dresses." The chorus that he wrote stays the same throughout, in part

"...on the chance that they'd be going out tonight,
Catch a show, maybe grab a bite..."

I change the chorus to this on the first time:

"...on the chance that they'd be going out tonight,
go downtown, maybe see the lights..."


Second repeat as written. Third time:

"...on the chance that they'd be going out tonight,
Maybe take her dancing, maybe hold her tight...."

It follows the progression of the song better.

Finally, there are some great old tunes that have lyrics totally wrong for today. "Angeline the Baker" is a real pretty Stephen Foster 2-chord song. Its a great jam song. But the lyrics are about slavery. Crooked Still and The BlackBerry Bushes do great covers of this song, changing the lyrics. Our band adds a minor progression up the neck in the B part from D to Em, F#m, G, Bm, A and back to D.

So sure, change the key to one you can sing or play better. Change the words to fit your story or message. Change the tune, add a bridge, be creative. I have little patience for the purists seeking a note-for-note replay of the original.

At a camping trip to Madras to see the 2017 eclipse we were playing tunes. One of my friends called "Teach Your Children." We played it with octave mandolin, a fiddle and too many guitars. A non-musician sitting with us said "no, it just doesn't sound the same..."
"No kidding?" I said. "Maybe it had something to do with not having David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Graham Nash or Neil Young singing. Maybe it was not having Jerry Garcia on the pedal steel. Sorry about that. Shoulda brought the album I guess."

[The Bard Rocks]

Mostly I play really old stuff so there is no issue with making changes I feel are warranted. An acquaintance wrote a song i really liked, so I asked permission to sing it. He was flattered and granted that right away. Going through it, I made some very minor changes to make the lyrics flow better in one or two verses, then sent it to him. He went bezeenies, apoplectic. So I apologized and explained (again) that I had sent these to him for approval and said that if he was offended I would go back to the original. He never spoke to me again, ....but stopped short of rescinding permission.

[UncleJesse]

The bands I've played in have always had fun with this. Making a song as dirty as you can at practice. I've not sung those lyrics live, except for an occasional flub or two

[UncleJesse]

One of the ones that I change is Tyler Childers "Nose on the Grindstone". That phrase doesn't strike me as correct. I think it should be "Nose TO the Grindstone". Maybe that's a Kentucky thing, I'm not sure. I can't help myself singing "Nose TO the Grindstone"

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

One of the ones that I change is Tyler Childers "Nose on the Grindstone". That phrase doesn't strike me as correct. I think it should be "Nose TO the Grindstone". Maybe that's a Kentucky thing, I'm not sure. I can't help myself singing "Nose TO the Grindstone"

Ditto to a current one I am working on - Glen Campbells "Try a Little Kindness". I never listened close enough to it to hear the last phrase clearly. It refers to "narrow-mind people in their narrow-minded streets? Streets? what does that mean.I always hear it incorrectly as "narrow-minded people in their narrow-minded ways".

I know if I change it to the way it feels right to me, someone will object because it's too well-known and thy'll remember how it is "supposed" to be.

[KevWind]

Interesting, as far changing a song in live performance see no issue .In point of fact many original songwriters do so with their own songs. Dylan being a prime example.



.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Interesting, as far changing a song in live performance see no issue .In point of fact many original songwriters do so with their own songs. Dylan being a prime example. .

I have been watching different C,S & N performances from the many years that they performed and I don't think they ever played their songs the same from one year to the next.

[J Patrick]

I make a distinction between coming up with a different arrangement and rewriting lyrics...I rarely rewrite lyrics but pretty much always come up with my own arrangements....the exception is with really old standards and public domain songs that I have already heard with various lyrics...songs like St James Infirmary come to mind....in that case it’s actually kind of fun to tweak a line or two...