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  #1  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:52 PM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Default Heavy gauge strings

I have a 2015 Gibson J185 Deluxe quilted maple guitar I bought. I always loved that J185 body size. I think they made these quilted J185 like 60 per year, for a number of years. This is not that "Quilted Vine" model that's more expensive, with I think an Adirondack top.

"Underwhelmed" would be the wrong term...I know it's an all maple guitar but I just like a little more beef. I imagined it would have a little more beef. But I love the general vibe of the guitar.

So...If I tried heavy gauge strings (.14-.59) and kept a 2015 Gibson always tuned down a full step, would the guitar stand those extra stresses? I've never used heavy gauge strings before. I do fine with mediums, just being really a rhythm player.

I imagine heavy gauge strings tuned up to pitch still do bad things to a guitar, reading all those stories about Martins and what heavy gauge strings did to them.
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:10 PM
Prof_Stack Prof_Stack is offline
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Why not try medium-gauge strings with a thicker pick?
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:13 PM
Vinnie Boombatz Vinnie Boombatz is offline
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I've owned two J200 Standards. One was phenomenal, one sounded like cardboard and strings didn't change that unfortunately.
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:26 PM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Stack View Post
Why not try medium-gauge strings with a thicker pick?
I have tried that. It's ok.
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:30 PM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
I've owned two J200 Standards. One was phenomenal, one sounded like cardboard and strings didn't change that unfortunately.
Yes, there is that possibility. Or the guitar doesn't suit me personally...in which case I'll sell. But I have to try a few things first, not there yet.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:02 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acme97 View Post
I have a 2015 Gibson J185 Deluxe quilted maple guitar...I know it's an all maple guitar but I just like a little more beef...I imagine heavy gauge strings tuned up to pitch still do bad things to a guitar, reading all those stories about Martins and what heavy gauge strings did to them.
Other than perhaps a '70s/80s Westerly Guild or pre-cutaway era USA Ovation - both of which were built like tanks (and for which they were, believe it or not, a factory recommendation for the latter - I still have the original literature from my '82 Custom Balladeer) I wouldn't go with heavy-gauge strings on any pin-bridge flattop guitar. If you're looking for a "woodier" tone - "beefier," as you say - you might want to check out a set of Martin Monel MM13's; these have slightly more tension than an equivalent-gauge PB or 80/20 set (paradoxically with a smoother, "slinkier" feel) - well within limits for most well-maintained modern instruments (your J-185 should have no issues) - with a less edgy, more "vintage" tonality. FYI I'm currently in the process of going over to Martin Monels on all my acoustic instruments - my wife and I played an unplugged gig this afternoon on our "his-&-hers" Rainsong JM1000/JM3000 jumbos, and if they can make her 17" CF 12-string sound woody-warm (albeit more Taylor than Guild in character) they might be just the trick for your maple 16-incher...
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:00 PM
ChalkLitIScream ChalkLitIScream is offline
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The total tension is what should matter. Use a string tension calculator with the heavy gauge strings on tuned down. There will be a point where trial tension with heavy strings equals total tension of a normal light gauge tuned to standard pitch.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:28 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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What strings are you using and what other strings have you tried?
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:51 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Acme, so long as you're tuning the guitar down a full step, your Gibson J-185 should be able to handle heavy gauge strings. For a few years I owned a really nice-sounding Gibson WM-45, which was essentially a natural finish J-45. It had the same Gibson short scale that your J-185 probably has.

That particular guitar sounded great tuned a step low, but because it had the short scale, the strings were kind of floppy tuned there, even though I was using mediums. So I experimented with beefier gauges, starting with the D'Addario Heavy set and eventually settling on the John Pearse 3100 Resophonic set, which has these gauges:

.016, .018, .027, .039, .049, .059

I found that the .018 wasn't quite right for what would be the B string in standard tuning, but was an A tuned down. So I swapped out the .018 for a .020 plain, and it was perfect.

Naturally, you're going to need to experiment with gauges, but you should be perfectly safe going with a heavier set so long as the tensions on the strings don't exceed what a medium gauge set tuned to standard pitch would generate.

I realize that recommending a heavy set of strings is going to leave some forum participants aghast, but some of those same folks are aghast at the thought of medium gauge strings on a guitar. But others among us use mediums and it hasn't yet caused our guitars to pull apart, or made airliners start falling out of the sky, or caused the Hoover Dam to fail and burst open.

I don't expect those catastrophic results to happen any time soon, and I think you'll be fine stringing your guitar with heavies so long as you keep the guitar tuned D to D instead of E to E. Just keep a close eye on what the guitar does once for the first days and weeks once you've got those heavier strings on there. A truss rod adjustment or two might be necessary as the guitar settles in, but it should be fine in the long run.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:41 AM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Other than perhaps a '70s/80s Westerly Guild or pre-cutaway era USA Ovation - both of which were built like tanks (and for which they were, believe it or not, a factory recommendation for the latter - I still have the original literature from my '82 Custom Balladeer) I wouldn't go with heavy-gauge strings on any pin-bridge flattop guitar. If you're looking for a "woodier" tone - "beefier," as you say - you might want to check out a set of Martin Monel MM13's; these have slightly more tension than an equivalent-gauge PB or 80/20 set (paradoxically with a smoother, "slinkier" feel) - well within limits for most well-maintained modern instruments (your J-185 should have no issues) - with a less edgy, more "vintage" tonality. FYI I'm currently in the process of going over to Martin Monels on all my acoustic instruments - my wife and I played an unplugged gig this afternoon on our "his-&-hers" Rainsong JM1000/JM3000 jumbos, and if they can make her 17" CF 12-string sound woody-warm (albeit more Taylor than Guild in character) they might be just the trick for your maple 16-incher...
That's what on the J185 now. It's better for sure, an improvement, but I need just a little more out of it. This guitar will live tuned down a full step OR even lower. I play down there a lot.
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:46 AM
acme97 acme97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Acme, so long as you're tuning the guitar down a full step, your Gibson J-185 should be able to handle heavy gauge strings. For a few years I owned a really nice-sounding Gibson WM-45, which was essentially a natural finish J-45. It had the same Gibson short scale that your J-185 probably has.

That particular guitar sounded great tuned a step low, but because it had the short scale, the strings were kind of floppy tuned there, even though I was using mediums. So I experimented with beefier gauges, starting with the D'Addario Heavy set and eventually settling on the John Pearse 3100 Resophonic set, which has these gauges:

.016, .018, .027, .039, .049, .059

I found that the .018 wasn't quite right for what would be the B string in standard tuning, but was an A tuned down. So I swapped out the .018 for a .020 plain, and it was perfect.

Naturally, you're going to need to experiment with gauges, but you should be perfectly safe going with a heavier set so long as the tensions on the strings don't exceed what a medium gauge set tuned to standard pitch would generate.

I realize that recommending a heavy set of strings is going to leave some forum participants aghast, but some of those same folks are aghast at the thought of medium gauge strings on a guitar. But others among us use mediums and it hasn't yet caused our guitars to pull apart, or made airliners start falling out of the sky, or caused the Hoover Dam to fail and burst open.

I don't expect those catastrophic results to happen any time soon, and I think you'll be fine stringing your guitar with heavies so long as you keep the guitar tuned D to D instead of E to E. Just keep a close eye on what the guitar does once for the first days and weeks once you've got those heavier strings on there. A truss rod adjustment or two might be necessary as the guitar settles in, but it should be fine in the long run.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
Sure it makes sense. Thanks
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