Acoustic recording home studio

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

i agree that the small box room is a likely culprit to consider. You actually don't want completely dead, for one thing.

I disagree. If a room sounds bad and can't be made to sound "good," kill it and take it out of the equation. Remember that unless using headphones exclusively, when recording and playing back in a bad environment, you're hearing it's anomalies twice. So not only is the recording weird, you won't really know what you're listening to.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

I disagree. If a room sounds bad and can't be made to sound "good," kill it and take it out of the equation. Remember that unless using headphones exclusively, when recording and playing back in a bad environment, you're hearing it's anomalies twice. So not only is the recording weird, you won't really know what you're listening to.

Sure, I agree that can work, tho I'm not sure what he's describing totally kills everything in a flat way, being in a small box. He does have a larger space to work with, it seems, and apparently has some room treatment. But without hearing the recordings he's not happy with, hard to know what's going wrong. Maybe his little room sounds great, but it's mic placement. Or the guitar, or...

[KevWind]

So lets back up because the OP said "I have created an 8 x 8 booth" but that was a bit ambiguous and vague as in "Created out of what exactly"
From the subsequent posts I am guessing he meant he had a created an area using acoustic panels (which if the case, is not the same nor as bad sound wise as a hard /reflective surface 8 x 8 square)

So that said ( and putting aside the acoustic panels for just a bit) and focus on simply situating your recording position in the actual overall room .
And to clarify a bit more of what Jim was talking about "the center" of the room = that does apply to the long walls of a rectangle so lets say in your 18' x 16'.
So I will call the 18 ft walls the "long walls" or "length wise in the room "
And the 16 ft walls are the "short walls" or "width wise in the room"

So first Ideally (if space allows you) you do not want to be more towards any corner position in the room

And ideally (as Jim mentioned ) you do not want to at the 9 ft length
wise (center of the 18' walls ) Often the starting position length wise to try is @ a 1/3 rd to 2/3 rds position (see illustration below) . BUT however you do want to be at the 8 ft position width wise ( center of the 16' walls ).


Now this is showing for mixing but the same can be said "more or less" for a starting point for recording also IMO

So as you can see the mixing position is 1/3 of the way away from the closest short wall, and in the middle between the long walls

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

Thank you all for taking the time to help me out and provide guidance when (as I am quickly discovering) these topics have been covered 1m times on here. i now have a direction to go in. Thank you Jim1960 for taking the time to point me to #18. wow i have a whole new project on my hands.

I have torn down the "booth" and will start over this weekend. Inspired by Rudy4s video, i used a very basic set of twin rodes and played into the corner with no booth anymore. No EQ no nothing. the sound already seems far more clear than the booth. Just playing into a corner with some ugly bats I made!

I can hardly tell the difference in the sound right now, so much fatigue. below are four mini samples. Any critical feedback would be so appreciated! All really bad? thin? 1 semi ok & the rest really bad? etc.

https://youtu.be/WnJ7eb1hBuo

That is a good move on your part. That strumming recording sounds clear and natural. Personally on my fingerstyle recording I try for notes that have a fat body to them yet enough transients coming through that details are clear.
A small amount of the right reverb often helpful. More or less success on that. Plenty of examples on my youtube site.

[broy]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Now this is showing for mixing but the same can be said "more or less" for a starting point for recording also IMO

So as you can see the mixing position is 1/3 of the way away from the closest short wall, and in the middle between the long walls

Hi Kev - from a 'recording standpoint - as a rule of thumb - would I want to be playing guitar and singing in the same position as shown for mixing (1/3 of the way from the front wall?) I've been doing probably the opposite being 2/3 from the front wall but will experiment.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by broy

Hi Kev - from a 'recording standpoint - as a rule of thumb - would I want to be playing guitar and singing in the same position as shown for mixing (1/3 of the way from the front wall?) I've been doing probably the opposite being 2/3 from the front wall but will experiment.

Well to clarify. ( if from the "front wall" you mean the wall you are facing ) I think for recording it is not quite so important as mixing

But that said:: because the mic's will be facing the opposite direction from the direction you are facing --- IMO it is still better for you to be facing the shorter distance so that mic's are facing the longer distance for the reflections to travel back to the mics on axis pattern -- make sense ? Again this is all just very general because all kinds of factors come into play like how the reflections react in any given specific combination of room dimensions. And what polar pattern you are using on the mic's etc. etc. etc. etc. So ultimately there are no pat answers just general suggestions

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Normandy74,
For a room your size, go with Kevin's diagram and put diffusers on the back wall. The diagram I have on the sticky thread post #18 is for small rooms where additional bass traps are more helpful than diffusers.

Or, if you want to unalive two birds (as the saying goes), GIK Acoustics sells traps that double as diffusers.

[j3ffr0]

One of the biggest problems is that when we are new to treating rooms, we think of the space as two dimensional. But it is really three. I started by treating walls 14 and 17 feet away in my room and the biggest offenders by far were/are the 8 foot ceilings. Two parallel surfaces that close together throughout are a killer.

Two things can help:
1) room treatment - I now have a lot of 4" 703 panel coverage on the ceiling.
2) hyper cardioid mics (the nulls will reject that mostly problematic ceiling floor stuff). Where LDC or SDC -- hypercardioid ought to help.

My room is much better than when I started -- good enough that I can get by without hyper cardioids now and just use cardioids. When I listen to my earlier recordings that were not done with hypercardiod or figure-8 mics I can usually hear the mud from that ceiling floor mode in spite of hitting it pretty hard with the EQ. I thought it was just the sound from the guitar at the time, but now that my room is better I know a lot of that muddy boominess was from the ceiling floor modes.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

One of the biggest problems is that when we are new to treating rooms, we think of the space as two dimensional. But it is really three. I started by treating walls 14 and 17 feet away in my room and the biggest offenders by far were/are the 8 foot ceilings. Two parallel surfaces that close together throughout are a killer.

Yes and many years ago now I hung ceiling absorption panels in my recording room.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

One of the biggest problems is that when we are new to treating rooms, we think of the space as two dimensional.

True... don't ignore the ceiling. A cloud of panels above your listening position will help you make better mixing decisions and will help reduce the up and down bouncing of waves.

[Normandy74]

[QUOTE=jim1960;7405765]Normandy74,
For a room your size, go with Kevin's diagram and put diffusers on the back wall.

Thank you all again for the feedback. I am going to town with this room and building boxes as fast as i can.

So you think mix in some diffusers in the back ? I was going to load that back short wall with more bass traps.

I will mix on one short wall like the classic diagram. And then test if the back 2/3rd now lends itself better to recording acoustic guitar and vocals vs doing such around the mixing area. So tbd on that. So should i get some difusers either way or wait and test the above location variables ?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

So you think mix in some diffusers in the back ? I was going to load that back short wall with more bass traps.

For a small room, my advice would be bass traps wherever you can fit them. The reason for that is small rooms allow no space for long low frequency waves to fade before they start accumulating in the corners and creating the problems that result in muddy recordings.

Your room is large enough that I think some space dedicated to diffusers on the back wall is the better option. You'll still, however, want bass traps in the corners and at the two first reflection points on either side of your mixing position (along with a cloud which can be made or 2" panels since the middle of the ceiling isn't a place for low frequency waves like to gather).

[Normandy74]

[QUOTE=j3ffr0;7407000]One of the biggest problems is that when we are new When I listen to my earlier recordings that were not done with hypercardiod or figure-8 mics

So besides sticking with HC mics, you were able to get some good results from a LD mic when set to figure 8 (post treatment) ? Is this speaking to mainly acoustic guitar recordings ? Any particular location or mic placement work best for you on the figure 8 ? Obviously this is a highly nuanced thing but just curious on your experience. Presuming my room 18x16 is treated in similar fashion to these classic diagrams.

I am using 6” boards with two layers of rockwool in them, including a monster 30’ sf cloud over mix table. so hoping the density and quantity of the traps makes a big improvement.

[j3ffr0]

Most of my figure-8 recordings were with ribbons. At first, I was thinking I was liking them so much better because they are ribbony! But the more I treated my room I realized that although I do like the ribbony sound the biggest difference for me was the rejection of the floor-ceiling stuff. I don't know -- I could be imagining some of that now that I think of it... I don't think modes work quite work like that.... but there was a lot of boominess I was always fighting in the those earlier recordings and significantly less of it when I used the figure 8 ribbons.

I went through a phase around months ago where I recorded primarily with LDC in hyper-cardioid and those recordings are pretty good. After my latest round of room treatment a few months ago, I have just been using my Schoeps CMC64s (which are cardioid). I have to cut a few db at 130 hz when mixing which is where my nastiest peak in the room is, but otherwise no EQ needed. I record at everything my mix position which is measured as the best spot in the room. I have some earlier recordings from other spots in the room -- not as good. Next bit of money I get I will probably by the MK41 hyper cardioid capsules for the Schoeps.... not sure if it will make a difference. I've done a lot of treatment and a lot of trail and error measuring and my room is as good as it's gonna get.

REW + a calibrated mic are your friends -- I resisted for a while, but once I used started using it addressed some issues and it helped me explain what I thought I was hearing.

[Normandy74]

UPDATE- OP has completely transformed my little 13'x17' home studio.

THANK YOU all for the wealth of info and referring me to the archive page with an excellent collection of videos.

I have posted a quick video tour below which starts with a space plan and spec sheet. I pretty much followed the classic design plans you all shared, working around my furniture etc. I made all the traps using safeNsound, cheap 1x6's "premium" Home depot yard fabric.. I got the Polydiffusers from GIK. They are awesome to work with and easy pick up in atlanta.

Now ive got to figure out where the best "general" spot is to record and track vocals/ acoustic guitar. Generally speaking it will be the front 3rd of the room, i think. but any advice on that front would be great. Obviously i will test by good ole trail and error working within the location of the treatment setup, but would love any advice as to how to use my ref mic to identify a general “good spot” and then start doing the acoustic guitar- angles and mic game in that pocket. Any tips?

There is alot out there on how test the room for monitor placement / treatment but obviously this element is more dynamic and havnt come across much on this

Aside: I built this really cool iso box for my guitar amp last year, which started this wholeee thing. you can see Its bulky and messes up my symmetry so still working on monitors adjusting for that, but gotta have it. I can crank my tube amp and u can hardly hear a thing. That was a real trail/error adventure if anyone interested in that project. It Works!!

Video tour including plans and specs:

https://youtu.be/3GYjMNG80Og