LR Baggs Anthem altering acoustic tone ?

iSoft · #1 06-12-2019, 01:40 AM

Hello Guys,

I have a new Taylor 224ce-k i felt in love with after trying lot fo them in a shop in Netherlands.
I knew, cause i tried lot of them, that i wouldn't like the Taylor ES2 system in it, never been my cup of tea, so I thought i'd swap for an LR Baggs Anthem but read few negative feedbacks on the impact on the acoustic tone.

Things to know are that (i know lots of you don't) i really love the sound of a piezo pickup for certain blues and finger picking parts, i love that unnatural tone i don"t know why

So doing with a K&K or things like that only won't be an option for me, i "need" a piezo in the whole setup.
For strumming i do prefer natural tone so being able to blend the two is a really nice option.

I thought about installing an LR Baggs Anthem but read lots of things mentioning that it was altering (a lot) the natural tone of the guitar, some saying that it was the big preamp and that it 'd be a better option to pick the Anthem SL (the small), and others that it was the undersaddle piezo that was altering the tone.
As i play 80% of the time the guitar unplugged, i'd prefer to keep it as close as possible to the tone i love so much unplugged.

So what are your experiences with those kind of systems ? Are there any other options out there that could suite my needs ?

Thanks for your replies and experience sharing

jazzguy · #2 06-12-2019, 04:12 AM

I have personal experience with the ES2 and the Anthem SL, but not in the same guitar. I have the ES2 in my 2016 Taylor 512e and I had the Anthem installed in a Eastman E20OM. In short, I love both. Both pickups (pups) have piezo's but the Taylor is to the side of the saddle and the Anthem is under the saddle. BTW - the Anthem's piezo is in fact the LR Baggs Element piezo pup. The fact is that no guitar pup is going fully represent your guitars natural tone. Some come close but it is always a compromise. The best representation is a good condensor mic, which is why that is used in the studio combined sometimes with the pup. The real key to getting a great plugged in acoustic tone is a parametric EQ. It lets you dial out / dial in the unique frequencies that are associated with the unique combination of the specific guitar and pup. I led the music at church for 10 years. A parametric EQ can transform any guitar/pickup combination into a magical acoustic guitar sound - truly. The before / after is dramatic.

Personally, I would leave the ES2 in. Especially since you play unplugged 80% of the time. Have you tried a string change and/or adjusting the small screws in pup? This can have a dramatic impact on tone. Also, the tone controls on the ES2 are additive and subtractive. i.e. - if you bring the treble and bass up, you are getting a more "scooped mid freq" tone. If you bring the treble and bass down, you are getting a more "mid freq focus" tone.

Again - you may want to try a different brand of strings or adjusting the pup.
Here is Taylor's link: https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...Sheet-2014.pdf

BTW - beautiful guitar!

iSoft · #3 06-12-2019, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzguy

I have personal experience with the ES2 and the Anthem SL, but not in the same guitar. I have the ES2 in my 2016 Taylor 512e and I had the Anthem installed in a Eastman E20OM. In short, I love both. Both pickups (pups) have piezo's but the Taylor is to the side of the saddle and the Anthem is under the saddle. BTW - the Anthem's piezo is in fact the LR Baggs Element piezo pup. The fact is that no guitar pup is going fully represent your guitars natural tone. Some come close but it is always a compromise. The best representation is a good condensor mic, which is why that is used in the studio combined sometimes with the pup. The real key to getting a great plugged in acoustic tone is a parametric EQ. It lets you dial out / dial in the unique frequencies that are associated with the unique combination of the specific guitar and pup. I led the music at church for 10 years. A parametric EQ can transform any guitar/pickup combination into a magical acoustic guitar sound - truly. The before / after is dramatic.

Personally, I would leave the ES2 in. Especially since you play unplugged 80% of the time. Have you tried a string change and/or adjusting the small screws in pup? This can have a dramatic impact on tone. Also, the tone controls on the ES2 are additive and subtractive. i.e. - if you bring the treble and bass up, you are getting a more "scooped mid freq" tone. If you bring the treble and bass down, you are getting a more "mid freq focus" tone.

Again - you may want to try a different brand of strings or adjusting the pup.
Here is Taylor's link: https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...Sheet-2014.pdf

BTW - beautiful guitar!

Thanks for your reply

I think you misread what i wrote or maybe i wasn't explicit enough (i'm from Belgium so my English is not that great)

What i'm looking for is that Piezo sound, i love that (in contrary to lot of people), with the possibility to blend in natural sound like the Anthem does with his mic when strumming, i'm not looking at all for a 100% accurate natural sound as you mentionned

So the ES2 will never give me that and i really tried every settings possible on it and for few years on different Taylor, never figged it personally.

I've juste read few times that the LR Baggs Anthem was altering the unplugged sound either with his big preamp or soft piezo system, and i don"t want to alter my unplugged tone that i love.

So what i'd like to know are your thought on the Anthem or Anthem SL (some says that the Sl avoids the big preamp and doesn't alter the natural sound) but would like to have your experiences when installing the SL or any other system that offers Piezo + Mic.

An i dit tested différents strings, 15 to be precise

Here is the video ni'e made of the strings shootout -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EM6-0Ir4k

AeroUSA · #4 06-12-2019, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSoft

Thanks for your reply

I think you misread what i wrote or maybe i wasn't explicit enough (i'm from Belgium so my English is not that great)

What i'm looking for is that Piezo sound, i love that (in contrary to lot of people), with the possibility to blend in natural sound like the Anthem does with his mic when strumming, i'm not looking at all for a 100% accurate natural sound as you mentionned

So the ES2 will never give me that and i really tried every settings possible on it and for few years on different Taylor, never figged it personally.

I've juste read few times that the LR Baggs Anthem was altering the unplugged sound either with his big preamp or soft piezo system, and i don"t want to alter my unplugged tone that i love.

So what i'd like to know are your thought on the Anthem or Anthem SL (some says that the Sl avoids the big preamp and doesn't alter the natural sound) but would like to have your experiences when installing the SL or any other system that offers Piezo + Mic.

An i dit tested différents strings, 15 to be precise

Here is the video ni'e made of the strings shootout -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EM6-0Ir4k

You would want the full Anthem as it allows you to dial in more piezo.

Yes it’s an amazing sounding pickup.

Yes it will affect your unplugged sound and this is my dilemma with the pickup. I just have installed it into six different guitars now and ended up removing it from all of them.

jazzguy · #5 06-12-2019, 05:24 AM

Ok thanks for the clarification. If it is piezo you want, the previous post is correct, you can dial in the amount of Piezo. I don't think the Anthem or any undersaddle Piezo is going to significantly "alter" the natural sound of the guitar personally. I have very sensitive ears, but this is subjective of course. Plus - when you are in a plugged in situation, no one is going to hear the natural sound of your guitar, they are hearing 100% piezo. I have also had the LR Baggs Element in a number of guitars, I like alot.

martingitdave · #6 06-12-2019, 08:36 AM

Take a look at the MiSi align product. It uses the same element transducer (piezo) as the LR Baggs and replaces the existing preamp. The beauty of this is that you can reuse the holes and plug and play wiring harness. If in the future you decide to sell the guitar, you can easily re-connect the ES2 system.

iSoft · #7 06-12-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

You would want the full Anthem as it allows you to dial in more piezo.

Yes it’s an amazing sounding pickup.

Yes it will affect your unplugged sound and this is my dilemma with the pickup. I just have installed it into six different guitars now and ended up removing it from all of them.

Actually the small Anthem (SL) also allows to dial the piezo/mic ratio but not on the flight.

So you thought the Anthem was altering the unplugged tone in a bad away enough to remove it from your acoustics ?

iSoft · #8 06-12-2019, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Take a look at the MiSi align product. It uses the same element transducer (piezo) as the LR Baggs and replaces the existing preamp. The beauty of this is that you can reuse the holes and plug and play wiring harness. If in the future you decide to sell the guitar, you can easily re-connect the ES2 system.

Oh that's interesting !
Actually i bought an Expression plug from Shaw Woodshop but i'll take a look at the MiSi !

https://isteam.wsimg.com/neb/obj/Qjg...rs=w:600,h:600

GuitarLuva · #9 06-12-2019, 08:54 AM

I have both the full Anthem and SL and also removed them both. My experience is the element UST and the preamp both had some impact. I could tolerate the element change but that preamp is bulky and with all the other components it's a lot of "stuff " to have inside your guitar. It's not my favorite tonally either I much prefer the Schatten HFN. The system does offer alot of functionality for a gigging musician though. For your needs rule out the SL version the adjustment it has is not what you're looking for.

For what it's worth I recently bought a new Godin Metropolis that came with the Full anthem. I originally thought about replacing it but since I never heard this guitar without it it's not bothering me as much, though the thought had crossed my mind what this guitar might sound like without it. I can tolerate one of my guitars to have the system but there's no way I would ever have multiple guitars with Anthem systems.

D41Fan · #10 06-12-2019, 10:19 AM

GuitarLuva, are you still enjoying the Metropolis overall? Mine is due to be delivered tomorrow. Kinda excited about it.

Dan

krugjr · #11 06-12-2019, 10:30 AM

DTAR Multi Source is worth a look.....yes, a little "bulk" added to the guitar (but nothing gives you all that you want).....a switch in the preamp during install allows for mono or stereo control....too much to cover here, but if you have a little time well worth it.....floats to the top 2 or 3 on the lists of many acoustic players.....

wondering why you didn't order a Tayler without electronics?

Doug

GuitarLuva · #12 06-12-2019, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D41Fan

GuitarLuva, are you still enjoying the Metropolis overall? Mine is due to be delivered tomorrow. Kinda excited about it.

Dan

Oh I sure am. It's my warmest sounding guitar and a real joy to play. I hope you feel the same! Looking forward to hearing your comments when you get it. I just changed the tusq pins to ebony, mostly for aesthetics, but this is the biggest tonal change I ever experienced with swapping bridge pins. It really really enhanced the low end even more, I was quite surprised.

Doug Young · #13 06-12-2019, 01:04 PM

The anthem is a nice pickup, but you do run some risk of changing the tone any time you make a change to the material in your saddle. Note that the change could even be for the better - you just don't know, it all depends on the guitar, how you play, what sound you like. I'd suggest if you try it that you have a new saddle made, not sand down the old one to fit. That way, you can easily go back to exactly as you were if you don't like it. (Although Taylor's Tusq saddles are pretty uniform and easily replaced with a new one as well.)

That said, the ES2s I've heard have sounded excellent, and I wouldn't trade the ES2 for an Anthem if it was me (recognizing that our taste and ears might be completely different). Another option for you is to look at ToneDexter, which can make your ES2 sound pretty close to the actual acoustic sound of your guitar, and give you the option of turning it off, blending however much or little of it in you want, etc.

JackB1 · #14 06-13-2019, 08:12 AM

Since you don't play plugged in much, why not just keep the ES2 system? It sounds serviceable plugged in. Just use a pedal or two to get the sound improved to where you like it. A parametric EQ can do the trick. The LR Baggs Align EQ pedal is very good at shaping the sound. I think just increasing certain midrange frequencies might give you that "piezo-like" sound. It's weird cause most folks here are trying to do the opposite

SiliconValleySJ · #15 06-16-2019, 01:31 AM

I've had an Anthem SL installed on a guitar and I found the change in tone unacceptable. The plugged in sound was *great* on the whole--I really like the Anthem/Lyric bridge mic, I think it's great. However, the element undersaddle part of the Anthem changed the tone more than just a little bit. Was it worth it? Plugged in, yes. At home by myself, no--the tonal change just grated on me.

James Goodall had the same experience when trying the element undersaddle in his guitar building, so he doesn't offer that as an option.