steel string tuning pegs for nylon string guitar

[RJVB]

I've been on the lookout for something similar too, as I use composite strings on a guitar with pegheads and those strings don't always like to be wound on such a small post. (Come to think of it, if a steel E1 breaks when you've been changing its tuning or taking it off too often it also typically breaks where it comes off the peg, for me at least.)

I'm still looking for a model that is more suitable by design, but the sleeving is a good idea. In fact, I've been doing a poor man's version of that. The G and D pegs have a sleeve made of polyvinyl-like isolation "tube" of an appropriate diameter. The same stuff didn't work for the E1 because it requires a lot more winding at a much higher tension so the sleeve was more or less being "squished" off the peg. I ended up putting 2 layers of heat-sensitive shrink-wrap on the peg. That works better but still not perfect; it's still being pushed upwards. The peg also turns inside the sleeve, despite having threaded the string 3x through the hole.

The shrink-wrap I have is the kind that has a sort of glue inside which probably makes it pointless to try to use another kind of glue - I'd also be very concerned of getting glue into the spindle and blocking the tuner that way... Pity, because the shrink-to-fit property seemed such a nice solution here!

[maxtheaxe]

I checked with Sperzel on a similar deal, except in the opposite direction; looking for locking tuners for a slotted headstock Rickenbacker 12-string (my 660-12). If you've ever changed strings on one of these you'll know of what I speak.

It seems like they might be able to custom-make a set; I have no idea what the cost might be. The point being that AFAIK Sperzel is the only company I know of that might be able to make custom tuners along these lines. I haven't followed up with them further, although I sent in pictures...never got a serious response, so who knows...?

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by maxtheaxe

If you've ever changed strings on one of these you'll know of what I speak.

You mean that the tension is so high that the tuners turn backwards? If that's the case, have you tried putting enough windings on the pegs so that the string is forced against the side wall of the peg box, hopefully blocking itself? That's the trick used on bowed instruments with their friction-held tuners (though there they are conical and you guide the string against the outer side wall so that the peg is pulled deeper into the box).

[RJVB]

FWIW:
https://wittner-gmbh.de/pdf/katalogb...bel_fla_uk.pdf

Dimensions:
https://wittner-gmbh.de/pdf/flamencowirbel275.pdf

[maxtheaxe]

Originally Posted by RJVB

You mean that the tension is so high that the tuners turn backwards? If that's the case, have you tried putting enough windings on the pegs so that the string is forced against the side wall of the peg box, hopefully blocking itself? That's the trick used on bowed instruments with their friction-held tuners (though there they are conical and you guide the string against the outer side wall so that the peg is pulled deeper into the box).

Nope. I mean that the slots are so narrow, and do not go all the way through the headstock (really, they're grooves rather than slots) that it is quite difficult to get them locked down on the posts, which are similar to the type that classical guitars/conventional slotted headstock use.

My fingers aren't big at all...nearly impossible to get them into those grooves. Just a massive PITA to restring one of these...fumbling with needle-nose pliers, cursing like a sailor, poking holes in fingers/bleeding all over. Locking tuners would solve this.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread...just wanted to suggest that Sperzel might be able to custom-make tuners for the OP.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Yes. And nylon is durable enough for nylon strings. As an aside, there were some 1950's and 1960's nylon string tuners with aluminum rollers. Martin classical guitars had them. Solid steel or brass rollers would add significant weight.

Planetary banjo tuners is an interesting idea.

I have used planetary banjo tuners on nylon strung ukuleles and banjo ukes, they work fine and the 4:1 ratio is a pleasure when tuning up nylon stings the first time.

[RJVB]

I got one Wittner planetary peg for flamenco guitar. It's just slightly fatter than the part of my Grover tuners that goes through the peghead so I'm holding off on installing it for now. Because it can handle a bit over 9kg of string tension which means an 11" E1 might still be fine but not a 12". And I don't want to give up the possibility to put steel strings on the guitar just yet.