A Question For Pilots....

[RussL30]

Speaking of disasters, The crash that horrified me probably me more than any other was Alaska Flight 261. That will make you not want to step foot on an airplane. Lazy ground maintenance and an airline trying to save a few bucks caused a lot of lives to be lost. Those pilots were heroic to take the flight over the pacific and did everything they could to save that aircraft . I listened to the ATC tape and it is chilling.

I’ll never step foot on a Douglas MD80 series aircraft.

[Kerbie]

Hi Russ... wasn't that the failure of the jackscrew in the horizontal stabilizer? I know you're not a fan of flying, but the MD80 has been a superb plane. Parts do fail, with and without the help of poor maintenance practices.

[RussL30]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Hi Russ... wasn't that the failure of the jackscrew in the horizontal stabilizer? I know you're not a fan of flying, but the MD80 has been a superb plane. Parts do fail, with and without the help of poor maintenance practices.

Yeah that was it. I couldn’t imagine the horror of being inverted. I’m sure it’s a safe plane, but after research I felt safer on on the A320 and to a smaller extent the 737. It’s just my insecurities and I know things could happen in those planes as well.

[Kerbie]

Yeah, all planes represent challenges... old ones, new ones. Very much like cars. I flew one of the 80's cousins for 12 years... wonderful plane. It was the oldest aircraft in our fleet and had the best safety record of all.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Hi Russ... wasn't that the failure of the jackscrew in the horizontal stabilizer? I know you're not a fan of flying, but the MD80 has been a superb plane. Parts do fail, with and without the help of poor maintenance practices.

I have to say, Kerbie, I am fascinated by your knowledge of commercial jet airplanes! Thank you for sharing this information with us!

Regarding that jackscrew failure, as an mechanical design engineer, I have designed a lot of mechanisms using jackscrews. Since learning several years ago about that failure on an airplane and the loss of life involved, I have actually had nightmares about jackscrew failures. I have designed airborne radar and avionics systems, but I don't think I have ever designed anything that could cause loss of control of an airplane.

Thanks again!
- Glenn

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by RussL30

Speaking of disasters, The crash that horrified me probably me more than any other was Alaska Flight 261. That will make you not want to step foot on an airplane. Lazy ground maintenance and an airline trying to save a few bucks caused a lot of lives to be lost. Those pilots were heroic to take the flight over the pacific and did everything they could to save that aircraft . I listened to the ATC tape and it is chilling.

I’ll never step foot on a Douglas MD80 series aircraft.

I recall that one vividly Russ. That was the one back in 2000 where after the wreckage was pulled from the ocean, NTSB investigators discovered that the maintenance crew who had last worked on that aircraft decided to blow off the recommended maintenance on that huge jackscrew in the tail that controlled the horizontal stabilizers and the jackscrew subsequently failed in flight causing a catastrophic loss of pitch control. The cockpit crew fought valiantly to save the aircraft and while they did the passengers were subjected to a horror we will never know as the aircraft was literally flying upside down several times while the cockpit crew attempted in vain to get control of the aircraft. Those maintenance mechanics should have been brought up on criminal charges and sentenced to long prison terms. Over 80 people died in that tragedy. The threads on the jack screw showed excessive wear resulting from Alaska Airlines failure to sufficiently lubricate the jackscrew. I wouldn’t step foot on an Alaskan Airlines aircraft. You might be wondering why I know so much about this particular crash. The reason is my next door neighbor’s daughter and her husband died in that crash. They were newlyweds returning from their honeymoon in Puerto Vallarta.

[Earl49]

At the time of that crash, work had me flying on Alaska Airlines a lot from Anchorage all up and down the West Coast - a dozen trips a year or more. I don't know exactly when, but I'm quite sure of having been a passenger on that particular MD80 aircraft at some point - probably within a few weeks before its crash. A sobering thought to be sure. Lightning strikes somewhere every day.

As I usually told the passengers in my Cessna 177 during the pre-flight briefing, "Congratulations on surviving the most dangerous part of your day - the drive to the airport here in downtown Anchorage. Now let's go fly over some mountains and glaciers". I found the best A&P (licensed mechanic) that I could and spared no expense on the maintenance of my airplane. You can't exactly pull over in the air, and flying in Alaska means very few good landing sites available. Reliability is king.

[Kerbie]

Alaska had 35 MD-80s in their fleet at the time of the crash of flight 261. It would have taken a while before the odds would have put anyone in that particular aircraft.

[Earl49]

Except as a pilot, I tend to notice the N number while I'm waiting at the gate. I know that I flew on that airplane, just not exactly when.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Except as a pilot, I tend to notice the N number while I'm waiting at the gate. I know that I flew on that airplane, just not exactly when.

Good that you weren't on its last voyage.

[Bob Womack]

i dropped onto runway 17L at DFW through bumpy weather at about five-thirty pm on August 2, 1986, a year to the day (and hour) after Delta flight 191. I was just forward of the wing on the left side in a TriStar. The scorch marks were still visible off to the left on approach.*

Bob

* I arrived about five hours late at DFW. As I was preparing to board at Norfolk a DC-3 somehow got its port main mount off the runway that was long enough for my plane to take off. It closed the airport for two hours while the locals figured out a way to get it out of the mud without pulling it apart. Besides making my departure late, it made a 500 mile detour necessary and caused the near-perfect timing.**

** I was there for a job interview. After deplaning, as the department secretary was driving me to the belated interview, we saw a one-hundred foot column of smoke begin to rise on the Interstate miles ahead. Once we got to the source we found that it was a beautiful, late model BMW, by then fully-involved, with a thirty-foot plume of of fire coming out of the cab beneath the column of smoke.

I'm not into omens but, darn: three in one day? I'm starting to get a message. When we arrived for my interview with the prospective boss, he STARTED with, "Well, looking at your resume' and reading your recommendations, you've already got the job. You are just here to find out if you want to join us!"

The "omens" continued throughout the weekend and I came to the conclusion that I couldn't take the job. I agonized back at home for a week before I got up my nerve to call him back. It turned out that the prospective boss had been fired two days after my interview and had taken my job offer out the door with him. Woo-hoo!!! Off the hook!!!

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by RussL30

Speaking of disasters, The crash that horrified me probably me more than any other was Alaska Flight 261. That will make you not want to step foot on an airplane. Lazy ground maintenance and an airline trying to save a few bucks caused a lot of lives to be lost. Those pilots were heroic to take the flight over the pacific and did everything they could to save that aircraft . I listened to the ATC tape and it is chilling.

I’ll never step foot on a Douglas MD80 series aircraft.

A few years ago I noticed more of those at peak travel time but not when I was through a bunch of airports last month. It seemed like the fleet was pretty much refreshed with newer planes. I did see 2 white generic DC-10 freighters I figured were in use for holiday capacity.

I know accidents happen but I had a delay last month when ground crew damaged the plane. Current news and concerns from some I know struck me because they did announce "mechanics and the inspector" in same sentence about the delay.

[Mr. Jelly]

I got off work one day and traveled within a mile of the airport here. I could see congestion around the Freeway and the airport and wondered what was going on. Then I saw this large jet flying real slow and low over the mall heading toward the airport. That was flight 232.

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I got off work one day and traveled within a mile of the airport here. I could see congestion around the Freeway and the airport and wondered what was going on. Then I saw this large jet flying real slow and low over the mall heading toward the airport. That was flight 232.

To this day whenever I hear “Sioux City, Iowa,” my mind goes to that crash. Over 100 dead I think, but nearly twice as many survived. Hell of a fight put up by that cockpit crew that ultimately saved many lives. Can’t recall if the cockpit crew survived or not. Wonder if they ever put that event in a simulator to see how others might have handled it? Don’t know for sure, but I would suspect no cockpit crew could have landed that crippled DC-10 any better after the catastrophic loss of the tail mounted engine that destroyed so many critical flight controls.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

To this day whenever I hear “Sioux City, Iowa,” my mind goes to that crash. Over 100 dead I think, but nearly twice as many survived. Hell of a fight put up by that cockpit crew that ultimately saved many lives. Can’t recall if the cockpit crew survived or not. Wonder if they ever put that event in a simulator to see how others might have handled it? Don’t know for sure, but I would suspect no cockpit crew could have landed that crippled DC-10 any better after the catastrophic loss of the tail mounted engine that destroyed so many critical flight controls.

The cockpit crew and their volunteer helper, trainer Dennis Fitch, all survived. I've always thought of that crew as an exemplar of good crew management. What flying. I only hope they've been able to get past survivor guilt and realize they did something really good.

Bob