Bigsby question. Fixable or send guitar back??

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Hey there, thanks for the reply. Another Canadian hoser eh.

Yessir but I usually sub the word "Luh" for "Eh".

Originally Posted by Carbonius

A triple play with a tremolo would sure be interesting. Your post reinforces that I need to get this nut adjusted.

Instead of changing the nut outright a simple test would be to loosen your strings and use a pencil or vaseline on the nut grooves and see if it goes away. A simple test that will only take a few minutes. I still think the locking tuners are a must with a tremolo though. As good as those stock tuners are locking tuners would still be better. I recommended those planet waves ones as they are fairly cheap, a simple drop in, easy to use and they are good quality. Of course the autotrim feature is neat as well.

I know the last thing anyone wants to do when they buy a new guitar is spend more money on it. Good luck to you though whatever you decide I hope it works out for you in the end.

[redir]

It's just the nature of the beast Bro. Even after you tune everything up perfectly you will have tuning issues with a Bigsby.

I use a graphite nut on mine.

[Carbonius]

As you know, this thread is about whether I should send the guitar back or not based on the Bigsby. Haven't had a chance to get the guitar checked out yet but I got to thinking. Maybe if I don't use the bigsby it just doesn't matter? Rather than sending back the guitar to get one without a Bigsby just, don't touch the bar.

Well that certainly doesn't work. I noticed after doing some bigger bends that the string is out of tune. Well that's not unexpected. However it's unexpected if it goes out of tune every single time you do the bend and then retune. We're talking 1½ step bends, not anything too crazy in the electric realm. I thought maybe it could have been the tuners but then noticed... every string is out of tune after I do bigger bends on one string. There's no way bending one string by 1½ steps makes ALL strings go out of tune. That part is not a nut problem, it's a Bigsby problem.

I didn't realize that a Bigsby acts like a floating tremolo rather than fixed like the old Fender. I don't really know what I got myself into here. If a Bigsby still goes even slightly out of tune after a lot of adjustments then that doesn't work. Now I understand the love-hate relationship people have with Gretsch guitars. I didn't realize it was mostly based on the Bigsby's.

There's an awful lot of moving parts on that system. Lots of areas for something to be off a little. One blessing / curse of my hearing changed over the last few years is that my sense of pitch has become even more sensitive. Very slight inconsistencies are a problem for me.

I should be able to see the luthier on Friday and I'll see what he has to say about it. He carries modern and vintage instruments in his store, so he's certainly well acquainted with a Bigsby. Hopefully he's acquainted with making them work flawlessly. If not I may have to look at options for locking it up so it can't move at all. At least then I could do string bends and such without it going out of tune.

[GuitarLuva]

Yeah dude I hope it all works out for you in the end. Maybe it is the Bigsby after all. The more I read your responses the more happy I am that I went with the "Les Trem" instead. It's certainly a simpler system (and wayyyyyy cheaper). I remember when I was having my tuning issues that as long as I never touched the trem it stayed in tune, unlike your current issue. I wonder now if it might be a weak spring in your Bigsby.

[Carbonius]

Bill of bricksbiggsfix gave me another great idea. He said if the Bigsby doesn't work for me but I want to keep the guitar I could do the following. Cut a piece of copper plumbing pipe to replace the spring which will then lock up the system. A simple, non-invasive and completely reversible option. That way bends will have no impact on the trem at all. So I could do that while searching for a Bigsby fix in the mean time.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Bill of bricksbiggsfix gave me another great idea. He said if the Bigsby doesn't work for me but I want to keep the guitar I could do the following. Cut a piece of copper plumbing pipe to replace the spring which will then lock up the system. A simple, non-invasive and completely reversible option. That way bends will have no impact on the trem at all. So I could do that while searching for a Bigsby fix in the mean time.

The more options the merrier!

[Carbonius]

Went to see the luthier today. However before doing that I decided to contact the seller from eBay. He was really good about my concerns. He also thought the nut is the first culprit and said he would pay for it to be adjusted. Very good

The luthier thought the angle of the D&G strings to the tuners was too sharp for how the nut was cut. This nut looks like the type you would put on a 6 on one side type of headstock, where strings go straight back. Perhaps it wasn't the right nut for this guitar. He will widen all the slots and clean them up. But I may have to wait until Monday to get it back. His work for me in the past has been perfect, so I don't mind the wait.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Went to see the luthier today. However before doing that I decided to contact the seller from eBay. He was really good about my concerns. He also thought the nut is the first culprit and said he would pay for it to be adjusted. Very good

The luthier thought the angle of the D&G strings to the tuners was too sharp for how the nut was cut. This nut looks like the type you would put on a 6 on one side type of headstock, where strings go straight back. Perhaps it wasn't the right nut for this guitar. He will widen all the slots and clean them up. But I may have to wait until Monday to get it back. His work for me in the past has been perfect, so I don't mind the wait.

Sounds like 2 pieces of good news for you!

[beatcomber]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Went to see the luthier today. However before doing that I decided to contact the seller from eBay. He was really good about my concerns. He also thought the nut is the first culprit and said he would pay for it to be adjusted. Very good

The luthier thought the angle of the D&G strings to the tuners was too sharp for how the nut was cut. This nut looks like the type you would put on a 6 on one side type of headstock, where strings go straight back. Perhaps it wasn't the right nut for this guitar. He will widen all the slots and clean them up. But I may have to wait until Monday to get it back. His work for me in the past has been perfect, so I don't mind the wait.

I looks like you're on the right track now, and the eBay seller is being extremely decent and ethical for offering to pay for the nut adjustment.

I own a 1962 Gretsch Tennesseean with a factory Bigsby and bar bridge (which no longer rocks due to wear in the wooden base). I string it with .011s, but I have to use flatwounds on it because it simply will not stay in tune with roundwounds.

[Carbonius]

UPDATE

It is substantially better now! With moderate trem use as recommended, meaning around a whole step bend, it's almost perfectly in tune. Only the D string goes 2 cents sharp, the rest go perfectly back where they were. I found a very simple solution to the D string. I just tune it 2 cents flat and then use the trem a little bit. Then I can use the trem quite a bit and it goes right back to 0 cents on all strings However the D string seems to be working itself out as I use it more.

This is certainly as good as it can get with non-locking tuners. I'll get into that later. The first thing to cover is things that the luthier said, some of which I have not read anywhere else in the many places I read about this problem.

First off the part that is to be expected. The nut was not cut correctly for this guitar. I confirmed that when speaking with Peter Sawchyn (luthier). It certainly looks like a nut you would use on a guitar that has six tuners on one side and all the strings go straight back. The D&G were substantially choking the string as they turned to the tuners. The A&B also choked a little bit. The E's went straight back. For the A, D, G & B strings he adjusted the backside of the nut slot so the strings followed a slight curve through the nut, rather than the sharp corner that was there before. So the strings now slide back and forth through a curved section. For all the slots he polished them nice and smooth and then worked graphite into the slots. So he didn't just put graphite dust in the nut slots and put the strings back in. He works the graphite into the slots of the nut.

His concern was with what the nut was made of. He said Tusq has its lubricating qualities. However his concern is that it is too soft. He's seen Tusq nuts start to grab at the strings in just three weeks after being polished. He said if the problem persists I should consider getting a bone nut made. It doesn't lubricate but it is so hard that strings don't make grooves in it that easily. So this leads me to conclude that all this talk about "self-lubricating nuts" was just a marketing way of saying "we're using mass-produced nuts rather than hand cutting them from bone to lower costs." And that's fine for the vast majority of the market, so I don't fault them on it.

Locking tuners would certainly eliminate all wraps from being around the post, which could come loose a hair here and there. For now I will not replace them as I like these tuners, I like them a lot!

So far I haven't even replaced the strings! The strings are not wrapped around the post the way I would do to lock them in place better. Meaning first wrap over & the rest under. So I am quite pleased with this much of an improvement. At this point I was just trying to figure out if I would keep the guitar or not.

So now I'm going to get to know my new friend a little bit better. This guitar plays VERY well. I will post an official NGD after I feel I have a fuller perspective on this guitar.

Thanks to all for their encouragement, support and wisdom.

[GuitarLuva]

Glad to hear you're back on track, congratulations!