Do I need "certain" pre-amp

$ongWriter · #1 08-02-2010, 08:47 AM

Hey, guys. Needing a little help. I have two guitars with a K & K western mini installed, I have one guitar with a Fishman Matrix infiniy pickup, I have one guitar with the new L.R. Baggs anthem. The only pre-amp I own is the Fishman Pro Platinum. Is it "that" important that I have the pre-amp that goes with that pick up system. I wish I had the K&K pure pre-amp just because it's simple and cheap. I'd also like to have the LR Baggs Venue just because it has a tuner built in. I used one for my first gig with the Anthem and really liked it. Wish I could have tweaked it before the gig. I just plugged it up, cut the mids, boosted the highs and lows and played...it sounded really good...loved..loved the built in tuner...plus, it's bright and you can use it in the dard really well. What do yall think?..

$ongWriter · #2 08-03-2010, 01:01 PM

Has anybody had an experience with any of the pick ups mentioned using with another brand pre-amp. and getting the "correct" pre-amp and the sound improving?...just wondered.

alohachris · #3 08-03-2010, 02:56 PM

Aloha Songwriter,

..........Pendulum SPS-1 preamp. Although I've stopped suggesting it here because of all the flak I get, it is definitely the best LIVE preamp unit for controlling and blending all those pickup systems and guitars you're managing.

You'd love it's separate-channel, fully-parametric EQ, versatile routing, the phantom-powered end-jack stereo module w/ blending & volume controls, FX looping, all the bells and whistles it provides, and oh, did I mention, the BEST SOUND YOU CAN FIND IN ANY LIVE PREAMP?

Used, they are sometimes found for under $1K. You've been here a long time, Songwriter. You know the score, especially since you need to control all those systems, right? Don't you think you need and deserve that unit?!? Start saving up for it.

Just think about it.

alohachris

$ongWriter · #4 08-03-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Songwriter,

..........Pendulum SPS-1 preamp. Although I've stopped suggesting it here because of all the flak I get, it is definitely the best LIVE preamp unit for controlling and blending all those pickup systems and guitars you're managing.

You'd love it's separate-channel, fully-parametric EQ, versatile routing, the phantom-powered end-jack stereo module w/ blending & volume controls, FX looping, all the bells and whistles it provides, and oh, did I mention, the BEST SOUND YOU CAN FIND IN ANY LIVE PREAMP?

Used, they are sometimes found for under $1K. You've been here a long time, Songwriter. You know the score, especially since you need to control all those systems, right? Don't you think you need and deserve that unit?!? Start saving up for it.

Just think about it.

alohachris

Thanks..I've heard that name knocked around here a few times. All I know is they are spensive...but, I'll check em out...Christmas is just around the corner!!!

donh · #5 08-03-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ongWriter

Has anybody had an experience with any of the pick ups mentioned using with another brand pre-amp. and getting the "correct" pre-amp and the sound improving?...just wondered.

YES!

Once I got the Red-Eye preamp (http://www.fire-eye.com/), my search ended!

I got a Pendulum and sold it (noisy, and the controls are Just Wrong), a PUTW (I kept one as a backup), a couple of K&K pres (ok, even wonderful for the price, but the RedEye smokes them), LR Baggs (honest product, but just didn't do it for me), etc etc etc

If you find the right Red-Eye dealer they will send you one on approval - I refused to send it back.

ericcsong · #6 08-03-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donh

I got a Pendulum and sold it (noisy, and the controls are Just Wrong)

can you elaborate on controls being "wrong"?

kendallhadden · #7 08-03-2010, 10:52 PM

Hey Jeff,
I really like my Dtar Solstice. It sounds great with K&K.
kwh

donh · #8 08-04-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericcsong

can you elaborate on controls being "wrong"?

Easily.

They are counterintuitive. The boost/cut is buried behind the freq and bandwidth instead of being where you can grab it first.

alohachris · #9 08-04-2010, 12:56 AM

Aloha,

That must be a joke, right donh?

(From Pendulum's site)

"Pendulum introduced the world's first rack-mounted acoustic guitar preamp back in 1988, and we have led the field ever since. Our client list reads like a who's who of acoustic musicians, including artists as diverse as James Taylor, Leo Kottke, Bob Dylan, Jackson Browne, David Wilcox, The Eagles, Steve Earle, Jeff Tweedy, Ray Lamontagne, John Williams, John Fogerty, Alex De Grassi, Metallica, Counting Crows, Lou Reed, Goo Goo Dolls, Rusted Root, Keb' Mo', Bob Weir, Phil Keaggy, John Sebastian, Arlo Guthrie, Al DiMeola, Kenny Loggins, Justin Hayward, Leon Redbone, Donovan, Laurence Juber, David Lindley, Jonatha Brooke, Catie Curtis, Gary Louris, Earl Klugh, Lindsay Buckingham, Clint Black, Ottmar Liebert, Mike Marshall, Wayne Johnson, John Abercrombie, Ravi Shankar, Patty Larkin, Lucinda Williams, Stephen Bennett, Brooks Williams, Tom Chapin, David Broza, Willy Porter, Bob Harris, and many, many others like alohachris, sdelsolray, bluewyatt, matty, miketx and ericcsong!"

Who uses the Red Eye?

(From Red Eye's site): "I used to have to carry a larger preamp and several effects boxes to gigs. The Red-Eye Preamp simplifies my setup and eliminates several flakey cables. Now my whole kit fits in my violin case." -- Squeekie Mouse, "Professional Musician?!?"

(Again, from their site) "I used to use two DIs to play my fiddle and mando at gigs. The Red-Eye Twin Preamp simplifies my setup and eliminates feedback when I set an instrument down too close to a monitor." -- Croaky Frog, "Professional Musician?!?"

It's definitely a joke. Especially when you compare pictures of the Red Eye and that "counter-intuitive" SPS-1. That's where the real humor lies.

Nice laugh. Enjoy your Red Eye. I guess it was the SPS-1's pesky Class-A rated electronics that finally put you off, huh.

alohachris

Mike_A · #10 08-04-2010, 02:22 AM

my Hartke AGX Acoustic Attack is the be-all and end-all of acoustic preamps! no kidding! really.

but seriously, going back to the OP's question, i think manufacturers factor in a bit of "matching" with a certain product but also design it to be compatible with a wide selection of pickups. I heard that the Aura works best with the Fishman USTs, and is hit-or-miss with other brands. I would assume the Taylor K4 is "optimized" for the Taylor ES, but I read it still works quite well with other picksups. in the end, mix and match and find which one works for you. you cant go wrong with class-a preamps as long as you can afford it.

i'm actually gassing for an Aura spectrum DI next. Christmas seem sooooooo far away.

guitaniac · #11 08-04-2010, 05:00 AM

Hi Songwriter.

FWIW, the Platinum has worked very well for me with a wide variety of passive and active pickups: K&K Pure Western mini (passive) in a mahogany/spruce OM, Mi-Si UST system (active) in the same guitar, Baggs Hex/PUTW SBT combo (passive) in a cedar/rosewood classical, PUTW I/O UST (passive) in a mahogany/spruce grand auditorium, DTAR Wavelength UST system (active) in a mahogany/cedar OM, Headway UST system (active) in a rosewood/spruce dread, Wendler MagPi system (passive mag/SBT combo) in my Wendler electroCoustic.

The MagPi system requires a rather unusual mid cut centered around 3KHz - no problem with the Platinum's sweepable mid control which ranges between 250Hz and 5KHz. I also like that the Platinum has plenty of headroom (thanks to a power supply voltage doubler) and available trim (with the trim/gain control) to deal with ultra-hot pickups like the Wavelength. Lastly, the Platinum's "smooth" control helps tame UST quack to a noticeable degree (a merciful blessing for an open mic host like myself).

Gary

donh · #12 08-04-2010, 07:22 AM

alohachris:

Sorry to pop your bubble, but I am actually serious. the Red-Eye is handmade by a guy in Texas who thinks outside the normal preamp box and nailed it. It's quiet, colorless, punchy, simple, and easy to use. And not at all well known, but those of us that use it are convinced.

The Pendulum has a wonderful reputation, and I totally enjoyed the Arlo Guthrie show where he used one. The builder is a good person and was quite helpful with information even tho I bought it used. I *tried* to like it, but I found it un-useful. It was easy to sell, tho!

ha? :-)

Joseph Hanna · #13 08-04-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donh

I *tried* to like it, but I found it un-useful. It was easy to sell, tho!

Sorry Don but you'd gain more traction when dissing a product as sonically high caliber as The Pendulum by maneuvering your argument around that facts as to why it didn't work for you on a personal level. As to the placement of gain-vs-frequency knobs, that arguments a bit like saying a Porsche 911 sucks cause the gas pedal is to the right of the brake and clutch. Kinda the way it is in this world of good audio equipment and I can't imagine that being some kind of deal killer for pristine audio. There can be no doubt in the audio world MUCH is open for personal interpretation but it's really difficult to argue the absolute factual quality of the Pendulum build.

I have previously owned a Pendulum and it is everything they advertise it to be and honestly more capable than I suspect most here have the fundamental knowledge as how to wrangle the greatness out of it. I would make the argument that my Solstice has some sonic vibes I like better and I do recognize that as one get's a firmer grip on their gigging rig the pre-amp makes some noticeable differences but calling the Pendulum "un-useful" is well..........really silly.

Bevelman · #14 08-04-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I have previously owned a Pendulum and it is everything they advertise it to be and honestly more capable than I suspect most here have the fundamental knowledge as how to wrangle the greatness out of it. I would make the argument that my Solstice has some sonic vibes I like better and I do recognize that as one get's a firmer grip on their gigging rig the pre-amp makes some noticeable differences but calling the Pendulum "un-useful" is well..........really silly.

Joseph, If I am not mistaken, Don builds audio systems for a living so I would expect that he has a pretty good knowledge about how to use the equipment. I cannot comment about how noisy the Pendulum is as I have never heard the SPS-1 - they somehow never came up for sale when I had the cash but people whose ear and knowledge I trust, such as sdelsolray, have raved about it.

I wouldn't discount the Red Eye simply because it has no bigtime endorsers. It looks interesting.

Joseph Hanna · #15 08-04-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevelman

I wouldn't discount the Red Eye simply because it has no bigtime endorsers. It looks interesting.

Hey Gerry,

No, no I have never heard nor heard of Red Eye. It might be the greatest pre on the planet. I am CLEARLY not in a position to judge what it does or doesn't do as I have no first hand experience.

My reaction/response was to the comment of the Pen being "un-useful"..not dissing anyone else's product.