Modern or vintage sound

[richie1959]

Hello all,

I would like to know how i can recognize a modern from a vintage sound of an acoustic guitar.
I often read about it here, but i haven't got any idea what the difference is between these two voicings.

Recently i ordered a furch vintage 3 OM guitar does that mean it comes with vintage sound? Anyone?

thanks for your reply's........

Richie..

[1neeto]

Vintage - Martin/Gibson and modern - Taylor?

[Silly Moustache]

This is a matter of personal perception, and I think you should stop worrying about it.

The so called vintage sound is mostly applied to elderly Martins (i.e. post 1934 models) which were slightly bass biased, and commonly called "that Martin sound"

I'm not personally aware of any other builder who has recreated that and it doesn't always apply to all Martins anyway.

Guitars, by various builders which have been around for a few decades tend to have a subtle and superior sound to an equivalent new one, as the tonewoods dry out over years and settle.

However, if your new guitar sounds fine now - it will only improve with play and time, and provide you with much pleasure.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

This is a matter of personal perception, and I think you should stop worrying about it.

The so called vintage sound is mostly applied to elderly Martins (i.e. post 1934 models) which were slightly bass biased, and commonly called "that Martin sound"

I'm not personally aware of any other builder who has recreated that and it doesn't always apply to all Martins anyway.

Guitars, by various builders which have been around for a few decades tend to have a subtle and superior sound to an equivalent new one, as the tonewoods dry out over years and settle.

However, if your new guitar sounds fine now - it will only improve with play and time, and provide you with much pleasure.

Silly’s post captures the essence of the distinction. If you hear a few older (especially pre-War) Martins being played without any amplification, the uniqueness of the tone will register for you, and then you can begin to discriminate the tone other guitars based on that reference point. Older Gibsons offer another glimpse into what is considered vintage tone, even though they sound very different from older Martins, and if you hear a few of them, that will further aid your discrimination.

But ultimately, some guitars will just sound good to you when played the way you play, and some won’t. And, over time, your own sense of what sounds good will probably change and evolve.

And your guitar’s tone will change over the years, and that too will affect your perception of tone and aid discrimination of more subtle differences in tone.

[The Bard Rocks]

The distinctions are vague for me. When I think of vintage, it is a boomier bass-driven sound, woody in character, direct. Modern to me has more emphasis on trebles and more harmonic content, more interesting, especially on the unwound strings played higher up the neck. And richer in overtones, more complex.

When I play an instrument, these distinctions do not come to mind per se - unless I am listening for them. They are not usually glaring.

I don't know Furch enough to address the second part of your question, but the word "vintage" is used to refer to tonal differences - and also appearance. But not necessarily to both at once.

[Robin, Wales]

The vintage sound comes from being charged $6000 to have a new guitar built that sounds like a $10.95 one from the 1931 Sears and Roebuck catalogue! Or at least it will sound like it after 90 years of playing.

On a more serious note, just find a guitar you like the sound of and buy it. If there is a company that makes guitars that lean toward the sound you like then go for something from their line. Personally, I know the tone I like from a guitar and, luckily, I really don't have to spend very much at all to get it.

So much of a guitar's tone has to do with playing style and how much of the potential within a guitar that the musician can access. Unfortunately, there are a lot clips of very expensive guitars on YouTube that, quite frankly, could be $150 Yamaha in that particular player's hands. And visa versa.

[richie1959]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

This is a matter of personal perception, and I think you should stop worrying about it.

The so called vintage sound is mostly applied to elderly Martins (i.e. post 1934 models) which were slightly bass biased, and commonly called "that Martin sound"

I'm not personally aware of any other builder who has recreated that and it doesn't always apply to all Martins anyway.

Guitars, by various builders which have been around for a few decades tend to have a subtle and superior sound to an equivalent new one, as the tonewoods dry out over years and settle.

However, if your new guitar sounds fine now - it will only improve with play and time, and provide you with much pleasure.

Well, actually i was just curious. I thought perhaps it had something to do with the bracing of the top of the guitar.
i really read it a lot here: a modern sounding acoustic guitar?
I am still very happy with my super vintage Larrivee SD50

thanks all, for the replies..

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

......And your guitar’s tone will change over the years, and that too will affect your perception of tone and aid discrimination of more subtle differences in tone.

.....and our ears change over the years as well, which can have the most profound effect of all. I've worked in noisy steam power plants for over 40 years, as well as ridden motorcycles, used power tools and listened to/played loud music.

At work, on bikes and with tools I've been diligent regarding hearing protection for the past 30 years, but annual audiograms tell the story of reduced ability to hear higher frequencies.

[mawmow]

Interesting question as the word vintage is used in so many bad ways.

I had came to think that the expression "vintage sound" was referring to
ladder-braced wooden guitars played by early acoustic bluesmen, say Stella,
Harmony or Kalamazoo, etc... Also the mid-century Gibsons Lg-0.

I find Silly Moustache's answer very interesting. Thanks !

[Rogerblair]

Gibson has also been around a long time and its early guitars clearly have a “vintage sound”. The sound is different from that of old Martins, but in every way just as unique and beautiful. Early examples of other, lesser known brands exist as well that offer a vintage sound.

Martin doesn’t have a corner on the market.

Rb

[dnf777]

Agree 100% with silly moustache on this. Way too much time spent debating this, although it is fun during down time. To paraphrase a famous American, ‘i cant define vintage tone, but I know it when I hear it!’ (And its not always from vintage guitars.)

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by dnf777

Agree 100% with silly moustache on this. Way too much time spent debating this, although it is fun during down time. To paraphrase a famous American, ‘i cant define vintage tone, but I know it when I hear it!’ (And its not always from vintage guitars.)

That quote was originally about pornography and was from a Supreme Court justice. It has been paraphrased often.

[thepassivevoice]

These two James Taylor video clips provide a good example:

Traditional (aka "vintage"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1nKGVDhQ60

Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSqT_PeiV0U

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by richie1959

Hello all,

I would like to know how i can recognize a modern from a vintage sound of an acoustic guitar.
I often read about it here, but i haven't got any idea what the difference is between these two voicings.

Recently i ordered a furch vintage 3 OM guitar does that mean it comes with vintage sound? Anyone?

thanks for your reply's........

Richie..

I have played a few guitars built in the 1930s, and they all had a degree of ressonance that I have not experienced from a modern guitar, like I could almost feel the top vibrating through my belly, but they all felt quite fragile too.

[blindboyjimi]

The vintage sound is not the Martin sound at all. Vintage guitars have a commonality of a very hollow tone which comes from the sustain being quite fundamental. This applies to ladder braced Stellas, X-braced Gibsons, Larsons or Martins. Vintage guitars, even the Brazilian rosewood ones are more fundamental in nature than modern guitars.

Modern guitars are much more overtone rich and can be quite complex. It is quite rare to hear a complex vintage guitar. There are many current builders that build in the vintage style. Julis Borges is the best in my opinion, though he just retired this year.

This is all different from the Martin tone which is bass heavy and treble heavy, meaning a scooped mid-range or Gibson which are mid-ranged heavier guitars (in general of course). Collings and Taylor’s are treble heavy, etc, etc.

These are big generalizations of course. There are modern vintage re-creations like the Martin Authentics but if you listen to a Martin OM-18A vs a Goodall grand concert I don’t think anyone would confuse the two as to which is the modern voiced guitar.