4 & 5 string banjo

[The Watchman]

This is really a music style question, not an instrument construction question. I've recently picked up four and five string banjos, and I understand the technical differences and how they're preferred by different music genres. But I don't get why. Does the extra drone string on a five-string just give extra punch to bluegrass picking, or is there another reason? I cant play either one yet, and likely never will, so my ear isn't sophisticated enough to recognize the advantage. I googled all I can but haven't found a good explanation of why.

Any good discussion welcome.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

This is really a music style question, not an instrument construction question. I've recently picked up four and five string banjos, and I understand the technical differences and how they're preferred by different music genres. But I don't get why. Does the extra drone string on a five-string just give extra punch to bluegrass picking, or is there another reason? I cant play either one yet, and likely never will, so my ear isn't sophisticated enough to recognize the advantage. I googled all I can but haven't found a good explanation of why.

Any good discussion welcome.

The 5-string is more versatile with the 5th string adding to the overall sound and a 5-string banjo will likely hold your interest longer when learning. The 5-string is usually played with the fingers in bluegrass or clawhammer style. The 4-string banjo, whether the longer-scale plectrum or shorter-scale tenor, is generally used with a plectrum (flat pick) for full and loud chordal accompaniment as in Dixieland but is also played with a flat pick with a lot of single-string arpeggiated picking as in Irish music. You could learn both banjos and their generally-related musical styles.

[Ben M.]

The 5 string banjo is the only instrument that was invented in America but it's roots are African. African stringed instruments were mostly made from gourds and had a varying number of strings but they usually had a short string on the top which wasn't fretted known as a drone string.
The guitar didn't gain popularity in America until the late 1800s. Up until then the banjo (usually called a banger) and fiddle were the most popular instruments.
Banjos of the 1700 and 1800s didn't sound much like the banjos of today. They were strung with gut strings and were usually fretless. Around the turn of the century fretted banjos with steel strings started to be made.
The popularity of the banjo which had been growing since the mid 1800s peaked in the early 1900s.
Instrument makers made about every kind of banjo you could think of. Mandolin banjos, ukulele banjos, guitar banjos even upright bass banjos.
This is when the 4 string banjo came about. The plectrum which was basically a regular 5 string banjo without the fifth string and the tenor which was the same thing just a shorter scale.
These four string banjos were popular with Dixieland, early jazz and swing bands. Usually just used as a rhythm instrument.
Then amplification came along and allowed guitars to take over in these bands.
The banjo was forgotten for a while. Then Earl Scruggs showed up playing a 5 string and helped to invent bluegrass.
Now when most people think of the banjo they think of Scruggs style.
Not sure if this is the information you were looking for but there it is.
Hope it helps.

[Ben M.]

It's mostly just about technique. The 4 string has usually been just a rhythm instrument. The most popular ways to play a 5 string nowadays are Scruggs style and clawhammer. They both rely on that fifth string droning throughout the song.
Contrary to popular belief there are about a frillion different ways to play a 5 string.
Dock Boggs, Charlie Pool, Uncle Dave Macon and a lot of others had their own way of playing.

Alright. Banjo rant over. I'll show myself out.

[frankmcr]

It's mostly just about technique. The 4 string has usually been just a rhythm instrument. t.

Except when it isn't.

[Silly Moustache]

Folks that know my ramblings, know that I'm a bit ot a history nerd.

Earlier this year, my wife bought me an open back frailing banjo (Can you believe it?) but I find the rather than Scruggs or flailing style it feels more natural to me to play it in what I've since learnt is called "guitar style" and has been since a guy called converse named it in I think 1865.

This chaps gives us a whizz though history :


I also found these short vids showing us just how far back the banjo entered European/americium history. Pts 2 & 3 are linked.

A banjo in my hand, once again, (I've had three in the past) I researched the history and found a tome called "That Half Barbaric Twang" by Karen Linn. Very well written but sadly in font 4 so difficult for my old eyes!

Regarding the four string banjo - the Tenor (short scale) or the Plectrum (longer scale) were used in the earlier jazz /dance bands - think New Orleans styles.

Here an old mate of mine who I've seen play tenor banjo in a classical concert :

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Does the extra drone string on a five-string just give extra punch to bluegrass picking

I would go with this. Plus the tradition of the music styles that it's used in. Bluegrass and old country style music does use allot of droning so you have that. As for tradition face it if you finger picked a four string in a bluegrass band it would still sound like a banjo. But the pier pressure would be irritating. But if you wear a cowboy hat instead of a bowler it might help a little.

[The Watchman]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Its helped me understand. Especially the tip about hats. Cowboy hat is the clue that its country: should have learned that from the PBS special.

[Wissen]

I view them as two completely different instruments. They are tuned differently, employ different right-hand techniques, different picks, and are generally suited for different styles of music.

You won't find a bluegrass picker using a four-string, and you won't find an Irish or Dixieland player using a five-string.

[The Watchman]

Wissen ". . . generally suited for different styles of music . . ." This is exactly the question I was getting at - why do they suit different styles? I get that they sound a bit different, different tunings, etc., but how does adding one extra string make a difference? It doesn't add to the range like a 7-string guitar. Extra notes when fingerpicking makes it more chimey, and that helps stand out in bluegrass? Thats what I getting from this discussion.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Wissen ". . . generally suited for different styles of music . . ." This is exactly the question I was getting at - why do they suit different styles? I get that they sound a bit different, different tunings, etc., but how does adding one extra string make a difference? It doesn't add to the range like a 7-string guitar. Extra notes when fingerpicking makes it more chimey, and that helps stand out in bluegrass? Thats what I getting from this discussion.

Try asking at banjohangout dot org

But in the meantime - The 5-string has been around a long time, significantly longer than tenor & plectrum (both 4-string but tuned & played differently) so 5-string is pretty much engrained in Country/Old time/bluegrass styles (of which there are many). But 4-string banjos are not entirely foreign to country/old time, at least: the original recording of Dueling Banjos featured 5-string vs. plectrum.

So, it's a matter of tradition, mostly.

[Wissen]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Wissen ". . . generally suited for different styles of music . . ." This is exactly the question I was getting at - why do they suit different styles? I get that they sound a bit different, different tunings, etc., but how does adding one extra string make a difference? It doesn't add to the range like a 7-string guitar. Extra notes when fingerpicking makes it more chimey, and that helps stand out in bluegrass? Thats what I getting from this discussion.

The open tuning and the drone on top make the 5-string banjo a great instrument for interesting, chordal accompaniment, both to other instruments and to itself when you pluck out a melody in the midst of your normal three-finger rolls or fraling. The simple diatonic chords in the key of G require two fingers on your left hand, so I could teach you to pick up a 5-er banjo and strum an accompaniment for a simple folk song in less than 5 minutes. Things get significantly harder from there, but with just two fingers you can create something pretty interesting. Allowing open strings to ring out is a key factor here. Filling that space is the purpose of the accompanying instrument.

The four-string banjo, being tuned in 5ths, traces this particular part of its lineage directly back through the melody instruments of the fiddle/mandolin families. Chords are certainly possible - see Dixieland - but it's harder to get a similar variety of chords, voicings, rhythmic interest, etc. For my ear, Dixieland banjo accompaniment gets stale pretty easily, but then again I won't profess to love Dixieland music. I have focused most of my musical effort on the 4-string banjo over the last four years, inspired more by Gerry O'Connor and his friends than anything in the Dixieland world. Coincidentally, you can use the same two fingers to create the same diatonic chords in the key of G on the tenor banjo. I do this plenty. But it's not a popular technique.

As for the sound of the instruments, they are pretty similar in terms of sonic signature. If you strummed non-open chords on a 5-string banjo, you would get a sound similar to the Dixieland 4-stringer. Vice versa using open chords and Scruggs-style on a 4-stringer to sound like a 5-er. Plenty of examples exist of both of these cross-genre hybrids. A discerning ear could hear the difference, but a complete novice would be hard-pressed to explain it.

Yes, everyone can chime in with exceptions to prove the rule. We're not trying to craft a grand unifying theory of banjo. But players like Bela Fleck who have used the banjo to transcend bluegrass have managed to craft their style by fighting against the characteristics of the instrument. Or transcending, or what have you.

Bottom line: open chords, simple chords, and popular right-hand techniques are the reason the 5-er fits so well and indeed has helped shape bluegrass style. The easy adaptation of fingerings from the violin/mandolin to the 4-stringer has pushed it in the direction of single-note playing (save Dixieland). There is also a heavy dose of "because that's what people decided to do" here.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

The 5 string banjo is the only instrument that was invented in America.....

You know, that statement is often repeated, usually in banjo-related books and articles, but it isn't quite true. Other American-invented musical instruments include but aren't limited to:

The mountain dulcimer

The pedal steel guitar

The acoustic resonator guitar

The solid body electric guitar

The electric bass guitar

The acoustic bass guitar

The electric baritone guitar

The acoustic baritone guitar

and I'm sure there are many more, particularly among brass instruments.

I mean, I'm not trying to be a pill here, but I do get a bit weary of that flatfooted statement about the banjo being the only musical instrument being invented in America.


whm

[Wade Hampton]

By the way, Watchman, I play five string banjo, four string tenor banjo, the eight string mandolin-banjo, and the six string guitar-banjo. Of all of them, I find the guitar-banjo to be the most versatile, by far.


whm

[The Watchman]

Hey thanks everyone for the education. I had assumed that the five-string was a more recent development of the four-string.