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#1
05-11-2001, 09:29 PM
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BMT- CH7 Triads & Inversions
No.
Chapter 6 is not done. Just trying to remind myself to move along.... Triads and their inversions are extremely important both from a music theoretical and practical playing viewpoint...pop up constantly.... ...ever go cuckoo trying to find a chord while figuring out a song? Ever think something like...."well....gosh darn it all....I'd swear it's just a C chord and an F chord, but no...man...something's missing....aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh....what is that chord? Is that one guitar? Is that two guitars? That isn't it. That's not it. That's definitely not it. Nope. Ugh. What the..... Whoaaaa!....flip that channel back....that's them!...on TV!....FLIP IT BACK! FLIP IT BACK NOWWWWWWW!!!!!! The dog starts barking. The children look frightened..... Show his hands! Show his hands! If that camera idiot jerk doesn't show his &*%$#@#ing hands.........Awwww mannnnnnnnn c'mon....bark, woof, howl, jumping on your leg.... What the &^&^%$%$#? What? It is just a C and an F !?!?!?!?!.... &^%$%$#@$!!!!!???????????? ....then the camera ever so briefly moves off Mr. I Look Good On TV Rock/Pop/Country star and you get a glimpse of Mr. Can't Buy a Date But Plays a Mean Guitar hanging out back by the drums where most non-attractive and green and black-toothed guitar players feel more comfortable.... ...as you come to the realization that you can't recognize at all what chord shapes his fingers are in despite the fact that you're on your knees with your nose against the TV screen (and you're dog is repeatedly licking the side of your face happily now that things have finally quieted down...the remaining but still-huddled family members slowly start coming back down the hallway to see if Dear Old Dad is OK)....I do suggest you learn your triads and inversions....  [ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: mapletrees ] [ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: mapletrees ]
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Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009 
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#2
06-06-2001, 11:43 PM
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Dear Mr Mapletrees,
I'm new around here, and so I was wondering where I might be able to purchase Basic Music Theory Chapters 1 through 5? I read with great interest (and printed to PDF) chapter 6, and also your article on modes, about which I have some questions (which I'll get to in a later message, perhaps). I thought your stuff was very lucidly explained, and made sense to me. If your earlier riffs are as good I look forward to reading them, too. If earlier stuff is not available, or doesn't exist, I'll get over it it, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And, please keep it coming. Lefty "sponge man"
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#3
06-10-2001, 09:13 AM
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Lefty,
We haven't heard from Mr. M lately, and I for one sorely miss him......you might want to send J.R. (the forum admin) a note and ask him if he stored the early lessons somewhere...I remember seeing them, but I wasn't smart enough to download/capture them for later.....and now they are not in evidence.....you are right on about the lucidity of Mapletrees "riffs", and I hope that he is well.
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Tom More than deserved, less than desired
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#4
06-10-2001, 09:30 AM
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Go back to the "Playing and Technique" page (that has the list of threads). At the top, you'll see a window that probably says "show posts from the last 45 days." Select "show all posts", and you'll find the previous "basic music theory" posts, mostly on page 2.
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#6
12-23-2001, 07:57 PM
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Jeepers creepers...how many months ago was this?
sorry to Grey Pouponart Mustard, tcovalentbondoing (sp? never got too excited about chemistry) and... and.... and.... ?... Larry.... ?... Wait... LarryH... HarryL... HairyL... Hairy Legs of Texas for not finishing this. This basic theory stuff can be found in a gazillion different books and what not.....nothing special here at all...but, if you learn it through a forum you have the advantage of being able to ask if you're confused.... triads (3-note chords) are ridiculously important.... ...people really play them or play 'out of them' for both rhythm and soloing, you build the other 'bigger' chords from them, they're excellent for learning the fretboad (can 'strip' them down to intervals or single notes, see how scales 'fit around them').... ok now.... speaking of legs... I see Mrs. Trees poking around the Christmas tree..... tail lights fading... there is nobody else in this house for the first time in about 18 months.... if you think I'm waiting until Tuesday to give her those pink leather thigh high boots you are off your rocker... triads to be continued... Later! 
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Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#8
12-24-2001, 05:38 PM
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She had a 'headache'.
mmmmpppphhhhh. 
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#9
12-24-2001, 06:23 PM
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They always do!
That's why I'm single!
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#10
12-25-2001, 08:01 AM
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getting back to this...
basic chord construction... again....we use the C major scale to illustrate...but since all major scales are constructed the same way (same series of whole and half steps) anything you reason out or learn about the C major scale applies to any and all other major scales... and I'll say it again....don't know if it is said within this series of posts or not....but I'm sure it is 'ranted' somewhere else on this forum... I'm just trying to plop out the basics of music theory here the way a typical book might do it....so you can ask a 'live' person if you've got questions.... BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT this is not at all the way I had students learn theory when I was giving lessons....there is too little opportunity for application with this approach for MOST people....it's a turnoff for MOST people... ..they did it through learning to read music and developing the ability to converse musically(sp?) with spoken language...Period. Don't want to do that? We don't do lessons. Period. You don't play strings, you don't play frets, you don't play TAB numbers....you play notes. You play notes that are layed against chords...you play melody within a harmony with rhythm....right from the beginning with the most basic of music reading it is crystal clear to see how melodies orbit about chord tones (that's the same exact principle you need to apply to soloing...it's what ALL good players do - IRREGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY 'KNOW' WHAT THEY ARE DOING). ...you don't begin to learn to fish (proper English?) by reading lofty-headed books about fishing...you plop yourself in a boat or on the shore with someone you like and you fish and talk 'fish and fishing-talk'.... ...you don't learn to begin to be a mechanic (proper English?) by sitting and reading books titled 'Principles of Auto Mechanics....Theory, Application, and New Directions for the 21st Century', forward by Lawrence Lofty-Head...again you stand around all day with a Bud drinking friend, pull things apart, put things together, and learn to talk 'car talk'... where was I...still having trouble organizing....still getting the meds straightened out...  general thought was that basic music reading if done PROPERLY affords a perfect opportunity for two folks of completely different knowledge and skill levels (instructor and student, or the student half of yourself and the self-instructor half of yourself) to develop a language whereby they can communicate MUSICAL thoughts back and forth to one another efficiently and effectively in a very 'hands-on' fashion... not done but gotta run...
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Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#11
12-25-2001, 01:59 PM
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can't stand that as I look back to my last post....
there were a couple of thoughts that never came out....and the ones that did come out came out so poorly it's tuff to know what the heck the point, purpose, etc....was in the first place... thoughts just don't seem to come out of my wee brain and through my fingers and keyboard the way I would wish they would as of late... the thought behind the last post was this: as far as learning theory, there's a couple of different camps.. one camp doesn't advocate learning any...more of a 'just play' approach...more of a 'blue collar' approach...stop all the intellectual jibber-jabber and let's get down to business and just play...and for crying out loud, none of that babyish girly-man reading music stuff... many do advocate learning theory...but they tend to do it in a way way way way way way way WAY too much of a workbook like fashion that ends up getting divorced from the fretboard.... and of course there are inbetween camps.... I found it much easier and productive to actively engage people in learning basic theory by 'getting them' or 'tricking them' or 'encouraging them' or 'requiring them' to simply speak musically in reference to what was happening within the basic and not so basic music reading we were doing....also by learning how to solo up and down one string at a time (with a lot of hum and find)....and by builiding up from and within triads around the fretboard....points of understanding here and there, then connect the points....easy... then you've got even more points to connect....easy....keeps snowballing...really easy....just have to make sure you start from points of complete understanding... I'm fearful that dragging on for chapter after chapter here just starts looking like that workbook approach...a further turnoff to those who would not be inclined to learn theory in the first place...and that's not my intention..... now getting back to the 'blue collar' approach for a second..... there is absolutely nothing about learning to read music and developing the ability to describe in music theoretical terms the interplay of melody, harmony, and rhythm that should in any way be contrary to a blue-collar or hands-on approach to music... what the heck could be more 'nuts and boltish' than knowing what the hell you are doing????? A mechanic knows the names of the various parts, knows their function.... knows, understands, and can describe the relationships between different parts and systems....etc... ugh...gottta run.... actually gotta Run Like Hell (Pink Floyd tune...with...drum roll...triads...) gotta run because a grumpy Mrs. Trees approaches from the north....I suspect an icy walkway I have neglected.... 
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#12
12-25-2001, 06:31 PM
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getting back to the builiding of triads...
Here's our friend the C major scale... C D E F G A B C .... you can continue that out past the octave which would be helpful for what we're going to do here or if you are writing out on paper yourself.... C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C.... ok, a chord is nothing more than three or more notes played together...there are many, many, many different chords...but they really only fall into a few categories, and understanding all that stuff starts with understanding simple little three-note chords called triads... you might know or recall that intervals of a 3rd (major or minor) sound pleasant to our ears...go back to earlier posts if you don't know that....an interval of a perfect 5th also sounds fine (pleasant sounding we called consonant....unpleasant sounding we called dissonant....with an interval of a flatted 5th being the mother-in-law of all intervals)...again, go back if you don't have a clue what an interval is... we build triads by picking a root note and then 'stacking' intervals of a third until we have 3 notes... we can build 7 different triads from that C major scale above... one triad where C is the root note one where D is the root note one where E is the root note one where F is the root note etc....etc..there are only 7 distinct notes...and each one can serve as a root note from which we build a triad... Begin with the note C. What is its third within the C major scale? Answer...the note E. Now what is the third of that E within the C major scale? Answer...the note G. So, we've got the notes CEG...a three note chord called a triad. We call it 'stacking' intervals since if you saw these notes in musical notation they would be stacked up neatly in the form of space space space (at least I think that's why we use that word...works for me...they wouldn't look like some disorganized clutter of notes.....other triads in musical notation would come out space, space, space, also......or neatly as line, line, line) ANYWAYS... "my God Daddy get on to the point" yells one of the holiday 'visitors' that went off to college just a few months ago seeing everything in the universe from my correct perspective and has returned as....as...as...?....as...?.... just kidding.... nuts...gotta run...
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#13
12-25-2001, 09:24 PM
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don't want to dwell on this point...but it is an extremely common point of confusion with this 'interval, chord, and scale stuff'....ask if you don't understand.....pretty sure I mentioned this before....again, not to dwell, but if you don't understand just one little facet of something, it is very easy to get frustrated....not have a clue what the sticking point is....blurt out something like "awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww screw it!"...
and rationalize that quitting trying to understand would be a good decision.... there is a general assumption and convention in music that when one doesn't specify "major" or "minor", then we agree that major is understood... for example, when you say the phrase "G chord"...you and everyone else in the world means "a G MAJOR chord" (as opposed to a G minor chord) we have the same convention for intervals...when you don't specify "major" or "minor" you mean "major"....but but but but but but but but but there is the additional confusion of making sure you know what darn scale you are referring to when speaking of or about an interval.... back to the aliens... you're walking along in a big Northeastern city park where they claim to have some trees, walking with your big city often on TV show lawyer, the aliens pop out from behind the trees and confront you with "Earthling, what is the 3rd of E? Vaporization if incorrect.".....much murmered(sp?) head-down talk with the lawyer....and you lawyer responds with..."my client says G#."...and you live....you are correct and you escape vaporization....the question"what is the 3rd of E" means "what is the major 3rd of E?"...and that means "what is the 3rd note of the E major scale?" or equivalently "what note is two whole steps up from the note E?" but but but but but but but in the previous post when we building up that triad CEG.... ugh ...gotta run...
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#14
12-25-2001, 09:43 PM
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Mapletrees
Glad you're talking about intervals again. Always enjoy you're unique teaching style I wish my theory teacher had been as creative, although when he yelled out periodically "what is the third?" I did fear vaporization. Lisa
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#15
12-26-2001, 04:21 PM
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taylorsmitten...
I thought I would have been on your 'ignore' list by now...everytime I go to post something to one of your threads (that playing discouragement one in particular) some other thread or post catches my eye, I say something such as "oh, this'll be quick, just a few words here" (that may or may not be worth the time to type - or read!)...and of course I get dragged off further and further on a tangent...sorry about that... onward.... ...and then try to relate this basic theory back to that discouragement post...you described it as a "not being able to flavor, color, add to, put your own stamp on the music" sort of frustration, right? (don't want to put words in your mouth...the post is not in front of me)..you also mentioned making 'mistakes'...of course everyone does make mistakes but there are definitely different sorts and levels of mistakes... ....I found that I knew gobs and gobs of theory...way way way and I mean WAY beyond basic things like triads within a key...but came to the realization that I had a 'working' knowledge, a useful knowledge, an applicable knowledge, a 'know it well enough to USE it on the fly' knowledge of virtually nothing.... common experience I had... I'd hear something cool on a tape, CD, or the radio by a good player...could figure some of it out maybe, perhaps some of it I couldn't figure out....but would have the thought "oh man, that's it...that's cool, I need to know that...don't recognize that sound....What's he doing?...that's what's missing...that's what's missing from my playing...I need to get good at whatever he's doing right there...the 'mysterious secret of what the good players do' revealed...I'll get the TAB book, figure out what he's doing...Yahoo..now I'm track, now I'm on track...problem solved...."Honey, I need to spend another $20 on another TAB book...gotta have this one...you see, if I could just figure out what this guy is doing here....then I'd be on my way...you know how I disappear to the bedroom for an hour or two when there's chores to be done...you know what I mean...I go off to play the guitar and have fun fun fun for long periods of time and somehow emerge grumpy as all hell?...yeah, you like that don't you?....see that wouldn't happen if I just spent another $20 for another.... etc.. etc.. etc... of course I'd get the book and come to the same realization over and over and over again...would never seem to learn from the realization though 1) the stuff the player was playing was not complicated at all really...try to word that better...my music theory knowledge went way beyond what the player was playing....he's just weaving in and out of triads, intervals, and some cross of the major pentatonic, minor pentatonic, mixolydian mode, etc...basic stuff....basic, basic stuff...not complicated...doing it in a very melodic way though...doesn't sound like lifeless scales when he does it... ...the trap of thinking I've gotta learn more, I've gotta learn more...but I already 'knew' more than the players I liked... 2) in some sort of hard to define way, even when I copy the TAB exactly...and I mean exactly...what I play does not sound as confident or authoritative...something's missing, ...it's hard to put a finger on...but any objective person in the world would be able to hear that something is missing... gotta run....
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Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009 Last edited by mapletrees; 12-26-2001 at 08:14 PM.
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