Taylor : default action but no relief in neck

[sergeko]

Hello,

My Taylor 312 has the standard action of 6/64" on the low E but without any relief whatsoever. Is this normal ?

Is a neck reset (the Taylor way, so with new shims) needed to lower the action to 5/64" without string buzz ?

Kind regards,

Serge

[KevinH]

My 522 came set up with very little relief and 5/64 action which is about right for me. But there really isn’t a normal. Taylor’s do seem to come set at lower action than, say, Martins. Some say you only adjust action with neck shims. But you’re only talking about 1/32” off the saddle. I’d just sand it, after setting the relief of course.

[rmp]

yea I think so. The necks are usually pretty straight, 5/64s give or take a whisker or two. At least the 4 Taylors I've gotten new are like this.

[blindboyjimi]

Is it buzzing now? Correct relief is 0.000”-0.010”. I prefer my necks as close to flat as possible. A neck reset changes the angle not the relief. Your truss rod changes the relief. Simply loosen it 1/4 turn and check it tomorrow.

[sergeko]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

Is it buzzing now? Correct relief is 0.000”-0.010”. I prefer my necks as close to flat as possible. A neck reset changes the angle not the relief. Your truss rod changes the relief. Simply loosen it 1/4 turn and check it tomorrow.

It's not buzzing now but I guess lowering the action would require a change in the neck angle ? If I tighten the truss rod 1/4 turn then the action is 5/64" at the low E but with buzzing ...

[blindboyjimi]

One lowers the action by taking twice the amount that you want from the saddle. Again, a neck re-set changes the angle of the neck to the body only.

So if you want to lower your action from 6/64" to 5/64" you need to lower your action by 1/64" so you will sand off 2/64" from the underside of the saddle. Since you are so unfamiliar, I'd suggest finding a good tech in your area and have him/her set your guitar up. A setup (usually about $60 from my tech) consists of checking the nut slot depths, checking the relief, and adjusting the saddle to your preference of action. One adjusts the saddle after the nut slots and relief are correct as changing the relief can slightly raise or lower your action. Just FYI, below 3/32" (6/64") requires very light strumming or fingerpicking not to get buzzing.

[Misifus]

Normally, action is adjusted by lowering the saddle. A neck reset isn’t called for until the saddle cannot be lowered enough to get the action right. That’s one of the reasons that difficult neck resets (on dovetail joints) weren’t considered a huge problem for many years. Just because Taylor makes it easier to do the neck reset with shims, doesn’t mean that’s the best way to approach action adjustment. When, in the fullness of time, your Taylor does need a neck reset, that bolt-on neck will certainly make it easier, but I would expect that to be years from now.

[blindboyjimi]

Originally Posted by sergeko

It's not buzzing now but I guess lowering the action would require a change in the neck angle ? If I tighten the truss rod 1/4 turn then the action is 5/64" at the low E but with buzzing ...

Please re-read my post. If your neck is flat, then you need to loosen the truss rod not tighten it. The truss rod counter acts the tension of the strings. The tension of the strings tries to pull the headstock forward which creates relief. To counter-act that you tighten the truss rod which creates back-bow and flattens the neck. Since your neck is flat already, you need to loosen the truss rod and allow your string tension to create a small amount of relief. When you tighten the truss rod on a flat neck, you will create back bow and it will definitely buzz.

Once you have the proper nut slot heights and the the relief is perfect, only then can you measure your action and lower or raise the saddle accordingly. But again, this seems a bit over your head, so you may want to search out a good tech or some YouTube sites or read Frank Fords website Frets.com or Kimsey lutherie website and YouTube channel.

[mcmars]

It is hard to get 5/64's on an acoustic guitar as any high frets or humps or twist is enough to cause a buzz. Or you get it buzz free, but then have thin tone and no volume. That is a good electric height, but 6/64's with 12 gauge strings at 12th fret 6th string is a very nice string height.

You are getting good advice here on relief and nut slot and taking the height off the saddle. Find a good tech and go ask them to inspect your neck to see if you could drop the action without a buzz. Then you just pay them a tip or small charge if they think it is set up right now and you do have to risk messing it up.

If it is a new guitar, then play it for a few weeks to let it acclimate as they will change action in different climates. If you are in a dry climate, the action can get lower and buzzes start to happen as the guitar drys out. So make sure to add humidity into the case and keep it in case when not playing it. Too much humidity is just as bad.

If you want it to be easier to play, you might try 11 gauge strings, and the lessor tension will drop the action a hair.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by sergeko

Hello,

My Taylor 312 has the standard action of 6/64" on the low E but without any relief whatsoever. Is this normal ?

Is a neck reset (the Taylor way, so with new shims) needed to lower the action to 5/64" without string buzz ?

Kind regards,

Serge

Hello Serge,

1. Taylor's factory spec is 6/6ths at the low E, and 4/64ths at the high e, with little relief (very little, and in some guitars I've picked up off store walls looks like practically none). If all notes are ringing true at this factory spec, then it is "correct" as far as Taylor sees it.

2. The truly correct setup are the specs that serve you, the player and his playing style. What Taylor offers is a wonderful starting point: you can then nudge it higher/lower as works best with whether you strum, flat pick, fingerstyle, or the like. And even within one given "style," you have to consider your own playing dynamics of, say, a light hand with a thin pick vs a dynamic strummer with a heavy pic. A genuinely good guitar tech will talk to you about what you play and how you play, then strive to meet that goal. Caution: if said tech does not discuss how you play, walk away. Seriously. He is clearly interested only in "doing the job" as he sees fit as opposed to doing it correctly to suit you, his client.

3. Truss rod adjustments are absolutely not intended to adjust for string height. May I suggest that you learn more about truss rods and the factors involved in achieving a good setup. And I recommend that you learn this not because I'm being snarky, but so you learn the vocabulary such that speaking with that good tech, you will achieve what you desire because you are speaking the same language.

4. How sure are you that you want 5/64ths at the low E? Why this number? And you realize this will also impact how all your strings will sound, especially the plain strings? May I ask you what your playing style is and what it is specifically that you are trying to achieve ...is it simply just a bit lower action than factory? The reason I ask is one of my guits is lower than the 6 and 4/64" Taylor spec (by my choice) and I absolutely play that guit differently from my T dred; again, because that's what I want for each diff guitar.

Edward

[dnf777]

Sounds like really good advice from Edward. A very concise book I found very helpful (after having built a handful of guitars and many set-ups) is “How to Set Up Your Guitar Like a Pro”, by Jonny Blackwood. About $20 on Amazon.

[sergeko]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

Please re-read my post. If your neck is flat, then you need to loosen the truss rod not tighten it. The truss rod counter acts the tension of the strings. The tension of the strings tries to pull the headstock forward which creates relief. To counter-act that you tighten the truss rod which creates back-bow and flattens the neck. Since your neck is flat already, you need to loosen the truss rod and allow your string tension to create a small amount of relief. When you tighten the truss rod on a flat neck, you will create back bow and it will definitely buzz.

Once you have the proper nut slot heights and the the relief is perfect, only then can you measure your action and lower or raise the saddle accordingly. But again, this seems a bit over your head, so you may want to search out a good tech or some YouTube sites or read Frank Fords website Frets.com or Kimsey lutherie website and YouTube channel.

I don't need to loosen the truss rod because I don't have fret buzz. I just want to lower the action. I understand now that it's not a good idea to adjust the truss rod for this.
But I understood that sanding the bridge/lowering the saddle is something that is seldom needed on a Taylor ?

[sergeko]

Originally Posted by edward993

Hello Serge,

1. Taylor's factory spec is 6/6ths at the low E, and 4/64ths at the high e, with little relief (very little, and in some guitars I've picked up off store walls looks like practically none). If all notes are ringing true at this factory spec, then it is "correct" as far as Taylor sees it.

2. The truly correct setup are the specs that serve you, the player and his playing style. What Taylor offers is a wonderful starting point: you can then nudge it higher/lower as works best with whether you strum, flat pick, fingerstyle, or the like. And even within one given "style," you have to consider your own playing dynamics of, say, a light hand with a thin pick vs a dynamic strummer with a heavy pic. A genuinely good guitar tech will talk to you about what you play and how you play, then strive to meet that goal. Caution: if said tech does not discuss how you play, walk away. Seriously. He is clearly interested only in "doing the job" as he sees fit as opposed to doing it correctly to suit you, his client.

3. Truss rod adjustments are absolutely not intended to adjust for string height. May I suggest that you learn more about truss rods and the factors involved in achieving a good setup. And I recommend that you learn this not because I'm being snarky, but so you learn the vocabulary such that speaking with that good tech, you will achieve what you desire because you are speaking the same language.

4. How sure are you that you want 5/64ths at the low E? Why this number? And you realize this will also impact how all your strings will sound, especially the plain strings? May I ask you what your playing style is and what it is specifically that you are trying to achieve ...is it simply just a bit lower action than factory? The reason I ask is one of my guits is lower than the 6 and 4/64" Taylor spec (by my choice) and I absolutely play that guit differently from my T dred; again, because that's what I want for each diff guitar.

Edward

Hello Edward,

Thanks for your good advice !

I'm playing fingerstyle mostly so a low action feels nicer and is easier. 5/64" seems to hit the sweet spot for me.

I thought Taylor recommended not to perform any sanding of the bridge or lowering of the saddle and use other neck shims instead ? Or is that advice only valid to keep the factory action of 6/64" ?
Is shaving (bridge/saddle) the only way to achieve a lower action ?

Serge

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by sergeko

Hello Edward,

Thanks for your good advice !

I'm playing fingerstyle mostly so a low action feels nicer and is easier. 5/64" seems to hit the sweet spot for me.

I thought Taylor recommended not to perform any sanding of the bridge or lowering of the saddle and use other neck shims instead ? Or is that advice only valid to keep the factory action of 6/64" ?
Is shaving (bridge/saddle) the only way to achieve a lower action ?

Serge

Forget numbers and factory recommendations-they aren't playing your guitar! Action height is set at both the nut by filing the slots down to your preferred action at that end and for which proper nut files are used, and by sanding the bottom of the bridge saddle. If the neck is straight leave it as it is and get your guitar looked at by an experienced tech and take their advice on setting the action.
Another poster suggested waiting a while (I'd give it a couple of weeks), to allow the guitar to settle into its new environment before making any adjustments. Sound advice.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by sergeko

Hello Edward,
...I'm playing fingerstyle mostly so a low action feels nicer and is easier. 5/64" seems to hit the sweet spot for me.

I thought Taylor recommended not to perform any sanding of the bridge or lowering of the saddle and use other neck shims instead ? Or is that advice only valid to keep the factory action of 6/64" ?
Is shaving (bridge/saddle) the only way to achieve a lower action ?
Serge

Hey sir,

Gotcha on the fingerstyle: makes sense, then, that you're seeking slightly lower action.

Taylor's stance clearly is that the neck angle via shim adjustment is the method of choice. That said, there is nothing that obviates you from fine tuning the setup via saddle and nut. While I have had one of my Taylors reset to my personal liking, as I am not a tech I can't tell you wither one increment change is fine enough to achieve what you desire. You'll need to ask that Taylor-authorized guy (remember, find a good one) what one "shim increment" achieves in real height.

Which brings me back to my initial point: learn the factors that comprise a proper setup. As AndrewG just stated, the nut slots' depth have just as much say in this matter as your saddle height. And where the saddle can be shaved to adjust for bass and treble side height, you have six nut slots that must be accounted for, knowing that each string's height at the first fret must be adjusted carefully to achieve that lower overall string height while still allowing the open string to ring cleanly. The "numbers" one achieves are mere reference points; ultimately, the best numbers are the ones that work for your playing style.

Yessir, knowing these various parameters is integral to being that genuinely good tech who can tailor your Taylor to suit exactly you.

Edward