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  #31  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:09 AM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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One "advantage" (not really) of being a beginner like myself is that even that easy stuff is hard. So the harder stuff doesn't seem much worse.

The exercise Bryan tabbed out seemed quite straightforward after a couple of flubs the first couple times through. But I suspect that's because I only play it at the same 100-110 beats per minute that I play everything. Where I fall apart is if I try to vary the arpeggio. I can play the thumb every fifth or sixth or third beat against a simple arpeggio but any change in the pattern with the fingers seems to freeze the thumb in place.
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  #32  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Coke_zero Coke_zero is offline
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It seems like I opened a can of worms here.
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  #33  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:19 PM
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It seems like I opened a can of worms here.
Definitely not. Just an interesting topic. I hope some of our banter helps you improve as a player.
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  #34  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:24 PM
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It seems like I opened a can of worms here.
With due respect I must ask what about the direction this thread has taken seems undesirable to you? So far I'd put in the top 2% or so of threads in this forum useful-info-wise.

Your question concerns a bit of technique that most people need practice to get right. For my part this discussion sheds some light on what's necessary.
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:39 PM
Brian W. Brian W. is offline
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Originally Posted by David Hilyard View Post
I've taken workshops with Pierre Bensusan where he spends a lot of time teaching finger independence. He's teaching exercises similar to yours only more intricate, and calling out changes as everyone plays. That requires independent control of your digits, I think.
I’ve seen Pierre move a thumb stroke from one beat to another while effectively shifting the entire bass line in relation to the melody. It was impressive to say the least! He used L'Alchimiste to demonstrate.

Moving a bass line on the fly . . . man—how does one get to that level? I suppose it’s possible to prearrange an alternate version that can be inserted at will and then jump back and forth between the two, but where’s the fun in that?
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  #36  
Old 06-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Coke_zero Coke_zero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hutto View Post
With due respect I must ask what about the direction this thread has taken seems undesirable to you? So far I'd put in the top 2% or so of threads in this forum useful-info-wise.

Your question concerns a bit of technique that most people need practice to get right. For my part this discussion sheds some light on what's necessary.

Not at all, none of this topic is undesirable. What I am saying is there is a lot of debate (which is a good thing by the way) which can be a little confusing. I just wasn't expecting so many answers and different opinions on the idea of independance. It is all usefull though, it really does show that there is so much more to the guitar than using a pick all the time like I have been for years. It almost feels like learning the instrument from scratch again.

It's funny really, im going through those frustraiting moments again like you get when you first pick up the guitar, but is is funny how satisfying it is when I fiinally get a picking rythem going.

One quick question which I think a few of you have touched upon. Should I learn the bass section first then add the melody or the other way around? And on that, should it be almost like one part of me playing the bass and another playing the melody. It's really hard to explain. I guess the best example is when Tommy plays Day Tripper. It is almost like he can seperate his thumb from his fingers.
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2009, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Coke_zero View Post
One quick question which I think a few of you have touched upon. Should I learn the bass section first then add the melody or the other way around? And on that, should it be almost like one part of me playing the bass and another playing the melody. It's really hard to explain. I guess the best example is when Tommy plays Day Tripper. It is almost like he can seperate his thumb from his fingers.
My take: Analyze the two parts individually. Learn them on the guitar at the same time.
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  #38  
Old 06-16-2009, 01:33 PM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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My take: Analyze the two parts individually. Learn them on the guitar at the same time.
I agree that this is the best way to get it all down. Just so you know what the bass line sounds like, it's a good idea to play it alone. Then it's a good idea to play the melody, and chord parts alone, so you can hear what they sound like. But actually getting them together seems to work best for me, (and for others) if I learn them measure by measure, as an assembled unit. Your hand and fingers then form the right shape to make it all happen. When you play individual parts, you'd likely be using different fingers than you need to do it as a unit.

I worked out an arrangement of "Moondance", where I figured out what I wanted as a bass line, then tabbed it out. Then I found the melody and tabbed that out on top of it. And then I found the chords I wanted to use and stuck those in there. After a couple of years (not really ) I learned it as a unit, measure by measure.

Tommy tells how hard it was to get "Day Tripper" assembled and played the way he now does with ease. After working on it for a long time, one day it just came together. I've tried it and it's something that requires steady work.

I don't see what is being discussed as a can of worms, either. It's all good.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2009, 08:22 PM
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Before you go out and buy a DVD, just try hitting the bass E with your thumb and the D string with your index, bass E with thumb and then G string with your middle finger. so its

T I T M T I T M and the strings are E D E G E D E G.

All of these alternating travis style books cover the same thing. Mark Hanson has a couple of good ones. His books have good exercises and decent tunes that develop the skill. If I had to do it all over again, would I buy as many books as I did? No. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the alternating patterns on your own, but a good book can point you in the right direction.
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2009, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke_zero View Post
I think the main issue is the music/tab I have is of very high standard playing which I am no where near. I was wondering if anyone knew a step by step way to learn...
Give me your e-mail and I could send you some basic tab for developing an alternating bass style, as well as a little arpeggiation.

elmcmeen AT ptd DOT net

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  #41  
Old 06-24-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke_zero View Post
I think the main issue is the music/tab I have is of very high standard playing which I am no where near. I was wondering if anyone knew a step by step way to learn.
You were given several good suggestions... which one did you try and how did it work out so far?
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  #42  
Old 06-25-2009, 08:27 AM
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And boy, El McMeen's offer...I hope you took him up on that. I almost did.
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2009, 10:37 PM
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  #44  
Old 07-24-2009, 01:37 PM
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We have a nice basic alternating bass lesson here with Steve Baughman. Its free.

http://www.rhythmstrummer.com/inside...roducts_id=195

I agree with the others, start slow, and super basic. You want to get the thumb moving independently till you can do it in your sleep, at least with alternating bass. I have the Pete Huttlinger dvd that was mentioned towards the beginning and like it alot.

I guess it depents what you want to play. Alternating bass style would be one route of study. Learning to play walking bass lines plus chords plus melody like Martin Taylor would be another route.
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  #45  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:50 PM
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I'm still learning, but as a student who's never had the time or been able to afford lessons, Happy Traum's "Fingerpicking Styles for Guitar" has been indespinsable for understanding syncopatic relationships. It's mostly traditional, travis-picking, piedmont and a bit of contemporary folk songs, but he does a great job of starting with basics patterns and slowly introducing new methods and challenges song by song without overwhelming or boring you.
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