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  #106  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:06 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Spruce;

No need to apologize. I was punning on the fact that relief is accomplished by adjusting the truss rod--sometimes I get carried away by my delightful sense of humor. I'm sorry for any discomfort my wit (or half-wit) may have caused.

Also, just so I get full credit for my humor, Monitor is a big lizard, and I have never called him in on anyone on this forum--not even my nephew Kramster.

And by the way, happy new year everyone. We are living in a perilous world and sometimes it's hard to step back and see the good stuff. For example, in this case, I think we know that Alistair will make this good in any way the suits Melt. That's a good thing.
Thanks, Evan, and Play On!
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  #107  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:11 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by jdinco View Post
When I see folks saying they have bad tone and playability, it makes me wonder if I'm missing something or if all CF guitars are NOT created as equal as I think. Or is it just a difference in taste? I don't doubt them at all, if they don't like them, they don't like them, so why do they keep them and why haven't they sold them and moved on? Just wondering in this New Year.
The playability part I can understand a little more as we all like different action, strings, neck shapes, etc. but regarding tone I know my first sample into carbon guitars was an all carbon fiber soundboard and it certainly sounded different than wood, kinda hifi like, which I admit I didn't like. I was totally amazed with how warm my X30 sounded when I got it, and it is very Martin like and doesn't sound anything like what my ears associated with carbon fiber sound. I would imagine the Rainsongs with the unidirectional soundboards would be in a similar boat. Some people are really picky and some not so much. I must say though I'm certainly happy to have found a carbon fiber guitar I like after looking at the following this morning:

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by GuitarLuva; 01-01-2019 at 11:20 AM.
  #108  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:56 PM
Shaneh Shaneh is offline
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Originally Posted by TheChicagoTodd View Post
Here are some rather poor shots unfortunately...but I do not seem to have any problems in the depicted areas on my x20-12.

Holiday cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Interesting yours looks like the bridge was put on top of the veneer vs the OP was clearly done after. What about other people’s woodys?
  #109  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:07 PM
Tøf Tøf is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bridge and body are one and only piece of carbon (the whole guitar actually), so the veneer is installed after the raw instrument has been made.
  #110  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:10 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Originally Posted by Tøf View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the bridge and body are one and only piece of carbon (the whole guitar actually), so the veneer is installed after the raw instrument has been made.
That's my understanding also.
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  #111  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:40 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Spruce;


Also, just so I get full credit for my humor, Monitor is a big lizard, and I have never called him in on anyone on this forum--not even my nephew Kramster.
Boy am I lucky... They do find me on their own though ... when needed of course.
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  #112  
Old 01-02-2019, 06:45 AM
gerardo1000 gerardo1000 is offline
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I wonder if Alistair is finally back from his hiking trip, and will respond to this thread or to the buyer...suspense!
  #113  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:28 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Patience is in order. Any communication will be private at first until things are worked out. We have no right to know any of the details, and may never know beyond "it was resolved satisfactorily" -- that might even be for the best. But I certainly understand the curiosity.

I run a consulting engineering business. In this age of smart phones, clients will often email questions (or even call) on Saturday night, and some get upset if they don't get an answer until Monday morning. Usually it is not something that is time-critical. We're simply cannot be open and available 24/7/365. I actually got several emails at 7 pm on Christmas Eve. Wanna guess when they got their answer?
  #114  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:30 AM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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This is when mail-order sucks. When you're looking at hundreds of dollars for returning a guitar.

This guitar was not sold to you as expected. Most factory seconds are better than this. I would insist on a full refund with all return shipping paid. I'm sure some issues could be overlooked if they were alone, but others cannot be. One of the big draw to CF guitars is how tough they are. That same toughness can bite you in the butt when you're looking at repairs and modifications.

The OP also must be concerned with you resale value of this guitar. I would want a huge discount on this guitar If I ever considered buying it.

Repairs on a wooden guitar are for the most part quite simple. Not so on a CF guitar. Even leveling frets that are stainless steel can be difficult. Shops that don't have the correct files will not work on these guitars. I'm sure many shops do, but I certainly heard of several that do not.
  #115  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonius View Post
This is when mail-order sucks. When you're looking at hundreds of dollars for returning a guitar. . . . .
Emerald issues pickup tags for return shipment at no cost to you. Delivery service comes to your door and it's on it's way. Painless as it gets.
  #116  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:28 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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Originally Posted by Carbonius View Post
This is when mail-order sucks. When you're looking at hundreds of dollars for returning a guitar.
Hundreds of dollars huh?? Why would anybody buy one.
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  #117  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Alistair Hay Alistair Hay is offline
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Hi Guys
Im sorry it took a few days to respond to this issue but as was mentioned we were closed until today so Im only getting up to speed on this situation now.
Im very disappointed that a guitar went out with these collective issues and ultimately the buck stops with me. I personally do a quality check on every guitar where I check the nut height, neck relief, action height, play every note for fret buzz, check fret ends, check cosmetics and check pickup balance and function.
Its always possible that I missed some of these details during the check or I missed checking it completely but either way I take full responsibility.
Let me discuss each issue and explain how they could come to happen and how they should have been resolved.
1) Fret marker off line… The Fret markers are inserted into holes drilled by hand on the side of the fretboard, sometimes while drilling the drill bit can wander a little as it finds a slightly more dense area in the laminate. We Do our best to avoid this by drilling a much smaller pilot hole first and then widening. If we have an error to the magnitude shown on the 24th fret marker it should be filled and redrilled. Ultimately this was neglected at the time of installation and I probably didn’t notice this as its very uncommon.

2) Dent under 24th fret…. Sometimes during curing we can get some unevenness and shrinkage in the fretboard surface, We can allow a small unevenness that can be sanded out during profiling but if it is too much like what is seen here it should go back to be resurfaced which didn’t happen in this case.

3) Uneven finish on fretboard….. After profiling we sand the fretboard with 600 grit sand paper and lightly buff. This should result in an even finish but during cleaning of the fretboard and polishing frets the surface needs re buffed. It looks like that wasn’t carried out here to even out the finish.

4) Unfinished frets….. This possibly is the most concerning and puzzling thing. We do a full level on our frets and spend a lot of time to get them both even and looking right. After levelling they are recrowned, sanded with 3 grits of sand paper and machine polished. From the pictures it looks like they were levelled and the next steps were missed.

5) Veneer placement and finish…… We cut the veneer very carefully by hand using a scalpel and it is then placed into the mould during the moulding process and great care is taken to make sure that everything lines up perfectly. Its a tricky business and getting a perfect transition between the veneer and carbon can be tough. Any small discrepancies are usually taken care of during painting. The outline of black you see is defined during masking and spraying of the bridge and fretboard edge. This could certainly have been a little more delicately done.

6) Truss rod stripped….. I would be very surprised if the truss rod is in fact stripped as I haven’t seen that happen before. The truss rod access is however inside a metal sleeve and I think what you are seeing is the outer sleeve and the allen key isnt actually being inserted deep enough into the hole to engage it.

It would be my feeling that during setup this guitar was set aside to have work done and somehow made its way to dispatch instead. Im really sorry about this error but of course as always we will stand over this 100% and make it right.
I spent quite a while reading through this thread and I can understand all the concerns and questions raised.
Just to bring some clarity to our current situation here are a few other points.
We have seen a big increase in sales and manufacturing over the past few years and I have always been very mindful of quality and finding the right people at the right time to help us grow and get better. We currently build 15 guitars per week and employ 14 people. We are currently locked into 15 guitars per week for the next 9 months and will be focusing on refinement and quality this year rather than expansion.
While we strive for perfection the truth is that is an unattainable goal but good enough is never good enough unless we are always improving. I can say hand on heart that our quality in 2018 was our best so far but 2019 will be better.
If a customer has an issue we will always assist in resolving the problem. We dont actually have a facility to have a guitar collected from your door but if you can work with us and take it to USPS we will then refund the $90 -$100 return shipping.
On the issue of whether this should have been discussed only in private well actually I have no problem with people discussing our failings. We love it when you share stories of how well we do and that inspires us and drives us. It is only right that you can discuss when we get it wrong. That also keeps us in check and motivates us to constantly improve.
This morning I had a meeting with our whole team where we put the pictures up on the big screen and discussed what went wrong and how we can ensure it doesn’t happen again. We take these issues very seriously as we have built a reputation on quality and customer service and thats a reputation we wont let slip.
I hope I have answered all the questions brought up here but if any others arise or I missed any then please ask again and I will check back in.

Alistair Hay
  #118  
Old 01-02-2019, 05:01 PM
121 121 is offline
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Looks like you've had a long day Alistair
have a good night.
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  #119  
Old 01-02-2019, 05:09 PM
gerardo1000 gerardo1000 is offline
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Alistair, out of curiosity, will the guitar be repaired or will it be replaced?
  #120  
Old 01-02-2019, 05:15 PM
anodyne anodyne is offline
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As a potential customer, I very much appreciate the open and honest response. While not a "right" as was mentioned, it was the right thing to do and demonstrates leadership/ownership ... something too often lacking (as I sit here listening to the news of the day). Emerald is already a better company for it. Thank you.
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