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  #1  
Old 12-14-2016, 09:58 AM
Pine Pine is offline
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Default Want To Try an X20

I'm considering a custom X20 build, but am concerned about the body size.

I'm hoping the ergonomics of the X20, (like my X7) would allow me to play the X20 comfortably, even though the lower bout is a bit larger than I can normally tolerate.

Is there anyone in the North Puget Sound area (Arlinton'ish) willing to let me try their X20 for size? Please PM me if you are in the area, and willing to let me try yours.

The build I'm considering is targeted to fingerstyle. 24.75" scale, 2-5/16" string spacing at the bridge. The upcharge Alistair quoted me for the two changes is VERY reasonable for a custom guitar spec. Gotta love those guys!

***** CAUTION: Read on only if you are REALLY bored *******

All my guitars need to be CF as we are moving our primary residence next year to our place in Arizona, and will RV North for the 3-4 hottest months. All but one guitar needs to stay in our unconditioned home in 110+ degree heat for months. The Eastman, my current fingerstyler, would explode. The PRS is an electric, but still wood. So I need to replace them.

I'm trying to get the herd transitioned prior to the move to AZ.

I want a strummer, a fingerstyle, and a "silent" guitar. All smaller bodied, slim neck profile, and short scale.

My current Lucky 13 is great for the strummer. One down!

For the fingerstyle, I'd ideally like a short-scale, 00 or smaller 000 body nylon crossover. Will nylon strings work on 24-3/4 scale guitars, or do they need the long scale for tension? Anyway, I suspect I'll end up with a steel string CF for cost reasons.

For the silent guitar, I currently use my PRS electric with a "VOX AP2CR amPlug Classic Rock G2 Guitar Headphone Amp". This lets me play almost completely silently when in the RV, and at home when I just don't want to bother Mrs. Pine or our two cats. The PRS is wood, long scale, typical electric tighter string spacing. I'd like a CF replacement with my preferred scale and string spacing. So far, I've found nothing at all.

Still here? Wow. You must be really bored!!
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2016, 10:26 AM
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Pine;

I have had 3 custom Emerald guitars. The X20 is a marvelous guitar and ergonomically sweet, but a bit large for my taste. The X7 is a little small for my taste. The X10 is between the 7 and 20 size and is something you might consider.

I believe that the X10 has been discontinued as a production model, but might still be available as a custom order.

That should help confound your decision making.
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Old 12-14-2016, 11:59 AM
Pine Pine is offline
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Hi Evan. I'm afraid I'll find the X20 too large as well. I had a 00015M Martin, and it was just too large a body, and the scale length too long for me as well. I sold it and bought the Eastman, which is much better.

I was signed up for the Emerald "road show" to try an X20 for size, but unfortunately they weren't able to make that happen.

I haven't tried a Rainsong NP12. It is a parlor size, so perhaps a bit smaller than my ideal, but has a 24.9" scale. Nylon may make this a fairly mellow sounding guitar as well. Unfortunately, they don't say what the string spacing at the bridge is on their website. I'm looking for something like 2-5/16". Also, I found the Rainsong parlor steel string I played to be too "trebly" for me. I have a lot of high freq hearing loss and jangly guitars sound really bad to me.
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Old 12-14-2016, 12:02 PM
CFW CFW is offline
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I had a custom X20 made as a 12 fret nylon string, and it's extremely comfortable. I used to have a steel string x20, which had a much longer reach with it's 14 fret neck..

The curve of the sides to the lower bout is angled, the body sits on your leg in a very natural position, giving the feeling of a smaller guitar.


Both my x7 and x20nylon are very comfy for long sessions.
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Old 12-14-2016, 01:11 PM
mot mot is offline
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I haven't tried an SH PRS. Mine is a 2015 Bernie Marsden. It's basically a single cut solid body with a 24.5 inch scale. I got it because I didn't see any reasonably priced CF electrics out there and an entry level PRS is about as close as I could get. I think the fret width is a little tight for me, but I like it otherwise though I am considering some upgrades.

I have a standard 25.5" scale X20 and a standard Lucky 13 too. If you are comfortable with the Lucky, then an X20 shouldn't feel too big to you as I recently said in my comparison of the two that I wrote a few days ago in AGF.

PM if you want to drive your RV a little out of the way. I am open to upgrading/downgrading/selling/trading/comparing anything I have for the right reasons.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2016, 01:19 PM
new2guitar_eh new2guitar_eh is offline
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Pine,

As Evan said an X10 sounds like it would hit your sweetspot. I tried an X20 and found it a little large for my liking. Ordered an X10 and have been very happy with the selection.

I am virtually positive if you reach out to Sean at Emerald they'll confirm they can still build an X10.

And if you want to drive to just the other side of the rockies from you, you are welcome to come try mine (ok, probably a 12 or 14 hour drive :-) )
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2016, 03:04 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post
.......I want a strummer, a fingerstyle, and a "silent" guitar. All smaller bodied, slim neck profile, and short scale. My current Lucky 13 is great for the strummer. One down!

For the fingerstyle, I'd ideally like a short-scale, 00 or smaller 000 body nylon crossover. Will nylon strings work on 24-3/4 scale guitars, or do they need the long scale for tension? Anyway, I suspect I'll end up with a steel string CF for cost reasons.

For the silent guitar, I currently use my PRS electric with a "VOX AP2CR amPlug Classic Rock G2 Guitar Headphone Amp". This lets me play almost completely silently when in the RV..........
I could get blacklisted here for saying this, but you probably don't need anything new. You already have the Lucky 13. It is a great finger style guitar (mine gets used that way about 75% of the time) and already works for your strumming needs. Strung up with silk & steel or other low tension strings, and you might be done, instead of going nylon. Blackbird also makes a nylon string version of the Rider. I don't see "nylon" listed as an option for the Lucky or the Super OM, but it is worth calling.

The Rainsong NP12 parlor in nylon is an option too.

Electric guitars are not immune, but are far less sensitive to low humidity than acoustics. Thick slabs of solid wood are much more robust than thin slices of spruce, etc. I'd keep the PRS for that purpose.
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Old 12-14-2016, 04:06 PM
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Pine;

I have a RS parlor in nylon and it's a keeper. It's a little narrow at the nut,
1 6/8", but it plays well and has a very mellow sound. I have the K&K in mine and it functions well in both acoustic and electric mode. One advantage of the RS is that it is a production model and if you are patient you will occasionally see a used one at a reduced price.

Blackbird made 5 Super OM nylon strung guitars, as a limited edition, and I doubt that you would be able to find one.
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:02 PM
Pine Pine is offline
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Default I've decided to .....

Do nothing at the moment. I'll probably revisit this as the move approaches.

I would really like a nylon strung CF guitar, but need to be able to try before I buy. These are expensive enough that I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! I really appreciate you folks taking the time to help me with this decision.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2016, 06:09 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Here's another thought. Since you already have a Lucky 13, next time you need to change strings anyway, put on a set of nylons as a test drive. You can get ball end nylon strings. The nut slots won't be quite right, and the tone may not be ideal because the guitar is built for steels. But for less than $10 you could do a trial run easily enough. If it really works then a different nut cut for nylons could easily be made. Save the original, don't modify it.

(I have an old Silvertone folk guitar that sometimes wears nylon strings when I'm in that mood).
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:57 AM
Pine Pine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Here's another thought. Since you already have a Lucky 13, next time you need to change strings anyway, put on a set of nylons as a test drive. You can get ball end nylon strings. The nut slots won't be quite right, and the tone may not be ideal because the guitar is built for steels. But for less than $10 you could do a trial run easily enough. If it really works then a different nut cut for nylons could easily be made. Save the original, don't modify it.

(I have an old Silvertone folk guitar that sometimes wears nylon strings when I'm in that mood).
That is a very interesting thought Earl. For several reasons. 1) I prefer post tuners to slotheads. 2) for my purposes, a quieter guitar is better. 3) I can try this for under $30.

Thanks for the idea. I'll go out and hunt up some ball end nylons to try.
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:57 AM
rwtwguitar rwtwguitar is offline
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I put either nylon or steel strings on my CF topped archtops. Same guitar. Sounds very different, but great either way.

I admit I didn't intentionally design them that way. It was a happy discovery since I began building with CF. Last two I built I shipped with two nuts to make swapping easier.

Archtop guitars with a tailpiece are different than pinned bridge flat tops. But I suspect you can string up with nylon and it would work fine.

Another advantage of CF over spruce.


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  #13  
Old 12-18-2016, 11:36 AM
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I tried nylon strings on two steel string CF guitars. The tonal qualities seemed fine but projection was weak. I would recommend high tension nylon strings for such a conversion.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:22 PM
Pine Pine is offline
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Yesterday I put a set of Ernie Ball ball end nylons on. Black nylon treble strings. I'd never strung a set of nylons before. I was surprised at how many turns it took to get them up to pitch, and how often I have to re-tune. Hope they settle in soon.

The Lucky 13 sounds great with Nylon on it. As Evan says, it doesn't have as much projection as a classical, but that is good for me as a beginner. (No one really wants to hear the noise I make on a guitar)

The action is a bit low for nylon, so I have to be a bit careful how hard I push it. At 1-3/4" at the nut, things are a bit tight for my fretting hand.

One of the things I'm working on right now is getting rid of my "Vulcan Death Grip" when fretting. The nylon strings are helping with that as I can fret buzz-free with barely any pressure.

I think I'll check with Joe before I acquire a nylon to see if he has done any L13-N's.

Thanks again everyone. This has been very helpful!

Craig
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:36 PM
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Not sure how Flaxwood electrics handle changes in humidity. Could be worth a look. I have one to sell, if they at all interest you. More than anything, I think the material is better than wood, just not sure if it is as stable as CF.
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