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  #1  
Old 06-12-2021, 01:49 PM
Odedi Odedi is offline
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Default Fishman Aura Spectrum DI

So, I want to improve the tone of my horrible sounding pickup which is an UST fishman presys 301 blend. I can only go so far with EQing, so I considered getting one of those DI's like the aura or venue.

It's a mic blend, and I have it dialed in 75% pick up 25% mic.
I heard that the Aura might not go well with mic blends, but only with USTs.
What do you think? Will I still be able to get a good tone with some mic blended in?

** The only reason I use the mic at all is because my open D string plus the D# and E next to it, disappear when I play other strings/notes. The are weak and lack the bass. Idk why it happens.. unplugged they sound fine.
Dialing in some mic brings them alive to join the rest of the notes.

Would love to hear what you have to say!

(My guitar is a Cordoba GK studio negra)
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2021, 02:08 PM
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dnf777 dnf777 is offline
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My understanding is that those type “DI”s are designed with UST or piezo systems. I would start with zero mic dialed in to find a sound you like, then try adding in the mic ifvyou want to see what happens. Hopefully some of the really experienced AGF-ers will chime in. Theyve been incredibly helpful in the technical aspects.
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:49 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Far from an expert but I think you have two different things to look at.

First, the undersaddle pickup is not working correctly if the low strings are too quiet. Usually that is one of a number of issues including the saddle not contacting the pickup strip underneath. The strip may have moved, or the saddle is not flat. A good tech will fix it in seconds.

Even though that will fix your dramas, it is still good to learn about the various DIs like the Aura. The Tonedexter is a great one to do a search on. The idea of the TD is to make the undersaddle pickup sound like your guitar through a microphone but with EQ, Feedback busting, effects loop, DI to hook to a PA live.

So if you have your Fishman mic inside the guitar on full in a loud sound, it is going to feed back and scream like a Banshee. Adding just a little mic on the blend can make your guitar sound more realistic. Too much, and lookout!

Plug in the Tonedexter with your saved sound for your guitar (see Tonedexter webpage for details), and you can turn your internal mic OFF and achieve a very similar sound but with the screams missing. Adding the internal mic in Tonedexter or Aura etc, can give nasty artefacts to the sound and is not needed anyway.

You can still experiment with your internal mic at low levels or by using headphones instead of floor monitors. If you have a Tonedexter, you have choices!

BluesKing777.
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:27 PM
BlueStarfish BlueStarfish is offline
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Agreeing with suggestion to first get your existing pickup sorted out. If certain strings are out of balance you need to fix that before dealing with IR technology like Aura.

Once you do that — the Aura is older IR technology, last generation at this point. The IR’s in it are not customized to your guitar. They are all based on steel string guitars with a Fishman Matrix pickup. So unlikely to sound good with your guitar (especially as it’s a nylon string). You should instead look at ToneDexter or Baggs Voiceprint. Those two allow you to customize the IR to your guitar and pickup via a training process. You’ll want to train it with no mic dialed in.

The Venue doesn’t have IR technology, it’s just (?) a analog preamp. A very good one by all accounts, but it won’t do the magic that an IR box like ToneDexter or Voiceprint does.
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:44 PM
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Chriscom Chriscom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStarfish View Post
Once you do that — the Aura is older IR technology, last generation at this point. The IR’s in it are not customized to your guitar. They are all based on steel string guitars with a Fishman Matrix pickup. So unlikely to sound good with your guitar (especially as it’s a nylon string). You should instead look at ToneDexter or Baggs Voiceprint....
Just to clarify, the full Fishman Aura Spectrum library does have some nylon string images, though it's anyone's guess how well it would work with the OP's guitar.

FWIW I've recently tested both the Fishman Aura Spectrum and the ToneDexter. I'll be selling the Fishman. If I had more patience I could probably find a better match for my Martin GPRS1 cutaway, but a very quick and hasty first try with training the TD gave me the first usable amplification I've ever heard from my Sonitone pickup.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:52 PM
Odedi Odedi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
Far from an expert but I think you have two different things to look at.

First, the undersaddle pickup is not working correctly if the low strings are too quiet. Usually that is one of a number of issues including the saddle not contacting the pickup strip underneath. The strip may have moved, or the saddle is not flat. A good tech will fix it in seconds.

Even though that will fix your dramas, it is still good to learn about the various DIs like the Aura. The Tonedexter is a great one to do a search on. The idea of the TD is to make the undersaddle pickup sound like your guitar through a microphone but with EQ, Feedback busting, effects loop, DI to hook to a PA live.

So if you have your Fishman mic inside the guitar on full in a loud sound, it is going to feed back and scream like a Banshee. Adding just a little mic on the blend can make your guitar sound more realistic. Too much, and lookout!

Plug in the Tonedexter with your saved sound for your guitar (see Tonedexter webpage for details), and you can turn your internal mic OFF and achieve a very similar sound but with the screams missing. Adding the internal mic in Tonedexter or Aura etc, can give nasty artefacts to the sound and is not needed anyway.

You can still experiment with your internal mic at low levels or by using headphones instead of floor monitors. If you have a Tonedexter, you have choices!

BluesKing777.


Thanks! I am considering going for the tonedexter.
I have been in this loop of searching for what i need (new pickup/ DI/new guitar) for days now, and I am getting tired of it and I think the TD is the best option out there for me right now.

So basically if I get the TD, do I still need to fix the thing with my piezo and saddle?
Cause the TD will produce a sound of the mic'd guitar.

**The rest of the string is fine, its just the open D with its adjacent notes.
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Old 06-12-2021, 10:56 PM
Odedi Odedi is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStarfish View Post
Agreeing with suggestion to first get your existing pickup sorted out. If certain strings are out of balance you need to fix that before dealing with IR technology like Aura.

Once you do that — the Aura is older IR technology, last generation at this point. The IR’s in it are not customized to your guitar. They are all based on steel string guitars with a Fishman Matrix pickup. So unlikely to sound good with your guitar (especially as it’s a nylon string). You should instead look at ToneDexter or Baggs Voiceprint. Those two allow you to customize the IR to your guitar and pickup via a training process. You’ll want to train it with no mic dialed in.

The Venue doesn’t have IR technology, it’s just (?) a analog preamp. A very good one by all accounts, but it won’t do the magic that an IR box like ToneDexter or Voiceprint does.
Thanks, I might go for the ToneDexter after all.
Will I still have to deal with my existing pickup's problem of not catching well those 3 notes on the open D?
Because (if I understand correctly) the new sound from the TD will be based on the mic'd guitar, and when it's unplugged, all is well with my strings.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:57 PM
Odedi Odedi is offline
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Originally Posted by Chriscom View Post
Just to clarify, the full Fishman Aura Spectrum library does have some nylon string images, though it's anyone's guess how well it would work with the OP's guitar.

FWIW I've recently tested both the Fishman Aura Spectrum and the ToneDexter. I'll be selling the Fishman. If I had more patience I could probably find a better match for my Martin GPRS1 cutaway, but a very quick and hasty first try with training the TD gave me the first usable amplification I've ever heard from my Sonitone pickup.
Seems TD is the way to go!

In what setting did you train it?
Do I need to go to a professional recording room with acoustics and all?
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:26 AM
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dnf777 dnf777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odedi View Post
Seems TD is the way to go!

In what setting did you train it?
Do I need to go to a professional recording room with acoustics and all?
Not at all, on the studio. You can download the excellent owners manual to read ahead of time. It is well-written and incredibly helpful, answering most anticipated questions, including the need (not) for acoustically treated rooms.

I have both TD and aura-di, and still use my aura. Its quicker to set up and use, so long as you find an image that youre happy with-with your guitar. It is still an excellent pedal. I do find the TD is much more enjoyable to noodle with and master, if that is ever possible.

I would strongly recommend reading and following the manual, and AGF searches. The TD guru and developer has been more than generous here, helping us out.

Two things Ive found:

a simple, cheap, small-diaphram condencer mic works better than most more expensive mics you wou prefer for recording

After that, and most influential is mic placement. Again, the manual will steer you in the right direction.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2021, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odedi View Post
Seems TD is the way to go!

In what setting did you train it?
Do I need to go to a professional recording room with acoustics and all?
DNF answered this well (nope) along with other good ToneDexter tips.

I think you should sort out the defect in your pickup first, however. The TD works with both the mic and your pickup, and I'd expect you're handicapping yourself if the pickup is providing weird information to the TD.

As for the Fishman, many have been very happy with it and much depends on how well its library matches your guitar--plus how patient you are trying all the different permutations. And some folks have been happy with it even if their exact guitar isn't in the library. In my case, my all-sapele Martin produced a boomy, cloudy lower-end that I couldn't EQ out regardless. In contrast, the onboard Fishman pickup in my higher-end Martin uses imaging, but it's custom-tailored for that guitar and I don't have a similar issue.

I'm not even going to say my first quick TD wavemap is completely acoustic-y; it just sounds good and balanced and non-quacky. I expect to get even a more natural sound when I have time to experiment with different mic placements and possibly different mics--and save my first wavemap for playing in a big mix, when true acoustic tones just get drowned.

Last edited by Chriscom; 06-13-2021 at 08:59 AM.
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