Soundhole pickup

[Cape Cod Dave]

I think i have narrowed my choices to either the Fishman Blackstack or the Sunrise S-1.
Looking for pros and cons from those with experience with either or both.

[jklotz]

Might want to put the Mojotone NC-1 on your list.

[MrErikJ]

I have both and like them both, especially through the Sunrise buffer. I'm of the opinion that if you can swing the Sunrise and don't need to be able to easily remove it, you can't beat the original. However, if you would like a slightly smaller soundhole mag that you can remove more easily, the Blackstack is the way to go. They're very similar in sound (especially through the Sunrise buffer) so you won't go wrong either way, I think the deciding factor comes down to convenience and price.

To add onto price, the Blackstack is a little easier to install if you buy the shorter cable from Fishman. The Sunrise isn't crazy hard but it's a handful of solder joints that, if you haven't done it before, you'll probably mess something up. The jack is also smaller than a standard jack so if you already had a pickup in the guitar, you'll need to utilize something that fits the existing hole.

[bobbyg67]

+1 for the Mojotone NC-1. got one and its very natural sounding.

[Jinder]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

I have both and like them both, especially through the Sunrise buffer. I'm of the opinion that if you can swing the Sunrise and don't need to be able to easily remove it, you can't beat the original. However, if you would like a slightly smaller soundhole mag that you can remove more easily, the Blackstack is the way to go. They're very similar in sound (especially through the Sunrise buffer) so you won't go wrong either way, I think the deciding factor comes down to convenience and price.

To add onto price, the Blackstack is a little easier to install if you buy the shorter cable from Fishman. The Sunrise isn't crazy hard but it's a handful of solder joints that, if you haven't done it before, you'll probably mess something up. The jack is also smaller than a standard jack so if you already had a pickup in the guitar, you'll need to utilize something that fits the existing hole.

That’s strange about your jack being smaller-I have three Sunrises and all of them have a standard size jack. Perhaps it’s a supply issue that Sunrise had or something similar? Admittedly one of my Sunrises is a late ‘80s example but the other two are less than five years old, one of which I purchased new from JP Guitars, the UK distributor.

I agree with your points about convenience and price...although in the UK there is very little between them price wise as the Fishman is extremely expensive everywhere for some reason!

They’re really two pickups that have very little to choose between them, I liked the Blackstack a lot, and will buy another one day, but I always come back to the Sunrise because...well...it’s a Sunrise.

I’ve had my three as my main live pickups for a long time, but haven’t used the Sunrise Buffer...I run through my Boss AD10. However I could easily put an SB1 in front of the AD10, which is very tempting...do you think it is a significant benefit?

[stephenT]

I used the Sunrise w/ buffer box for quite a few years and it was a favorite until I tried a Blackstack. I found I preferred the Fishman for a couple reasons.

The first being the weight and size. The Blackstack weights less and given it's size it's much easier to install. I can install mine in a couple minutes without removing or slacking the strings.

Second is sound, through either the Sunrise buffer box or a Fishman ToneDEQ the two pickups are very similar in sound and response. The Blackstack may be clearer in the midrange. And I think my guitar sounds better unplugged w/ the lighter and smaller Blackstack installed.

I sold my two Sunrise pickups, kept the buffer box and bought a second Blackstack as a spare. I have one Blackstack mounted in my Martin 00-15. But the Blackstack is also great as a temporary pickup since it's so easy to install and remove.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Jinder

That’s strange about your jack being smaller-I have three Sunrises and all of them have a standard size jack. Perhaps it’s a supply issue that Sunrise had or something similar? Admittedly one of my Sunrises is a late ‘80s example but the other two are less than five years old, one of which I purchased new from JP Guitars, the UK distributor.

I’ve had my three as my main live pickups for a long time, but haven’t used the Sunrise Buffer...I run through my Boss AD10. However I could easily put an SB1 in front of the AD10, which is very tempting...do you think it is a significant benefit?

Yeah, the standard Sunrise Switchcraft jack was smaller than the hole drilled for my Baggs M1, which is smaller than a standard Fishman jack lol. I just used an extra Baggs Strapjack I had laying around so I wouldn't have to drill it larger for my Blackstack. In the future, I'll prob just use a Blackstack.

Regarding, the Buffer I can't say yes or no either way. I find that the Buffer does increase the level of the Sunrise (which reduces noise from having to crank gain on an amp or mixer) and makes the tone more "steely" and less "humbucker warm." But, I haven't compared it to enough other preamps to say it's the "best" option. It definitely pairs really well with it but I don't know if it's necessary.

[meb]

I use a Sunrise in my main guitar and a Blackstack in my backup. I
almost always get complements on my sound with the Sunrise.
That being said, if the Sunrise was not already installed, I would
probably go with the Blackstack for easier installation, convenient
removal and size. Hard to go wrong either way.

[euraquilo]

DiMarzio's Black Angel acoustic pickup (model DP234) is also considered a close second to the Sunrise.

Dan

[Rozendal]

Hey everyone, new to AGF, first post actually! Just wanted to +1 on the Mojotone NC-1. I’ve been playing professionally and touring for the past 10 years, tried A LOT of pickups, most recently the M80, which thanks to Noledog I was able to get sounding really good (with the Align EQ).

The Mojotone is in a class of its own. It’s really different and special, and I’m not being paid to say that! Very clear, microphone quality openness (wider frequency range), no electronic mag pickup sound, no quack.

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps (and they’re available in the UK)!

[noledog]

Originally Posted by Rozendal

Hey everyone, new to AGF, first post actually! Just wanted to +1 on the Mojotone NC-1. I’ve been playing professionally and touring for the past 10 years, tried A LOT of pickups, most recently the M80, which thanks to Noledog I was able to get sounding really good (with the Align EQ).

The Mojotone is in a class of its own. It’s really different and special, and I’m not being paid to say that! Very clear, microphone quality openness (wider frequency range), no electronic mag pickup sound, no quack.

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps (and they’re available in the UK)!

Welcome to the AGF Roz! Glad you found my vid on the M80 and the Align EQ helpful; two wonderful pieces of gear!
I’ve yet to try the Mojotone but it gets good reviews including yours. I sold my M80 and Align EQ and other gear during the shutdown for some income since all my shows were canceled. Since I’m back to 20+ shows a month I needed to get another mag for my D18 but didn’t want to spend much. I hadn’t heard of the Mojotone at the time and took a chance on the DeArmond Tone Boss and I love it! Now I’m very curious to try the MJT... I still miss tho the percussive characteristics of the M80, excellent mag for sure!

Cheers mate!

eric

[Rozendal]

Originally Posted by noledog

Welcome to the AGF Roz! Glad you found my vid on the M80 and the Align EQ helpful; two wonderful pieces of gear!
I’ve yet to try the Mojotone but it gets good reviews including yours. I sold my M80 and Align EQ and other gear during the shutdown for some income since all my shows were canceled. Since I’m back to 20+ shows a month I needed to get another mag for my D18 but didn’t want to spend much. I hadn’t heard of the Mojotone at the time and took a chance on the DeArmond Tone Boss and I love it! Now I’m very curious to try the MJT... I still miss tho the percussive characteristics of the M80, excellent mag for sure!

Cheers mate!

eric

I should’ve joined earlier and let you know—I watched your video probably 10 times, then spent a couple hours listening to the guitar, raising pole pieces, etc. Really helpful.

The Mojotone has the percussive features of the M80, might be worth a swap (and they’re relatively cheap . . . got mine for $150 used).

[noledog]

Originally Posted by Rozendal

I should’ve joined earlier and let you know—I watched your video probably 10 times, then spent a couple hours listening to the guitar, raising pole pieces, etc. Really helpful.

The Mojotone has the percussive features of the M80, might be worth a swap (and they’re relatively cheap . . . got mine for $150 used).

Good to know! Question for you; how is the balance between strings, especially the notorious hot B string? How do they tame it?

[Rozendal]

Originally Posted by noledog

Good to know! Question for you; how is the balance between strings, especially the notorious hot B string? How do they tame it?

Right, good question. Overall it’s very good, no problem with the B string. The bass strings in general were a little loud. My guitar guy added cork to the clamp on the treble side to boost it, but I found that sliding the bass side of the pickup back toward the bridge worked better (that old adage in music—the answer is usually to subtract something). I’m not sure how they EQ it in the preamp, but it’s remarkably clear and mic-like without the normal pickup issues, and most of the noise is canceled.

Other people have said it’s whisper quiet, but that hasn’t been my experience, FYI. It’s a single coil, which I’m sure contributes to that open sound and wider frequency response, but it does have *some* noise. Most people I suspect would find it negligible, or just not notice. I keep the pickup volume around 3-4 (the volume dial isn’t numbered, so it’s not-quite-one-thumb-roll up from 0), and that help a lot. I play single coil pickups on my electric guitar, though, because of the tonal qualities, so I’m willing to put up with a modicum of noise.

That may be more than you wanted, but I hope it helps! Cheers.

[pcs264]

I got the Mojotone pickup for my 000-28 a couple of months ago and I'm really pleased with it. I've used a variety of pickups over many years (UST, soundhole, dual source), and the Mojotone is my favorite, hands down. Great tone, balance, feedback, very little noise, and of course it's only there when I need it! Mojotone really got it right with this one (no affiliation except satisfied customer).

To me, the only amplification that sounds better is a condenser mic, and the pros & cons of that are a whole different thread...