Building with The Tree

[rd boyda]

I am curious to get input from luthiers who have built guitars using The Tree. How does it feel to work with such intensely rare and irreplaceable wood? What is your favorite part of working with this mahogany? Is there a sense of history and understanding of the importance of this wood and how special it is? The sound is mahogany and I am not looking for a comparison to rosewood or blackwood or any other sound. Working with The Tree has to have many struggles and stress. I am also interested in players who have a Tree guitar and their thoughts about the energy and how the unique sound and tone it has.

[FrankCousins]

I'd be interested to know how those who have built with this wood, would view it if it was ugly as opposed to stunning? Is there a sense of 'the Emporer's new clothes' about this wood intact it is so pretty, but so expensive, if you sell a guitar with it, or buy one, would anyone ever admit they were not overwhelmed?

Given that most who had access to this wood are seasoned professionals, I suspect they could build a great sounding guitar out of some construction grade 2 x 4, so the price of this stuff is in its rarity/ beauty, as opposed to being that much better than other top end tone woods?

[Richard Mott]

Not an owner or builder, but I had an interesting chat with a very well-known luthier who had just completed several Tree guitars, and he described the wood as “floppy” and cardboard-y, at least to tap on. Nothing remarkable about it, except perhaps that apart from the visual aspects, his expectations would have been pretty low. He was surprised therefore at the quality of the instruments that came out of it—truly exceptional he said. I was only able to play one, but I have never forgotten it, simply amazing energy in it. And I say that as someone who is not especially in love with the appearance of the Tree. But this was a once in a lifetime guitar.

[rd boyda]

The luthiers I know are driven to use the best wood they can to build the best instrument they can no matter what. They are passionate about their work and there is always an inspiration to each build. It truly has a different look, but it is what you feel when you pick it up that makes the difference. If you ever have the chance, definitely pick it up and play it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6lVt399Dkw

[rd boyda]

Originally Posted by Richard Mott

Not an owner or builder, but I had an interesting chat with a very well-known luthier who had just completed several Tree guitars, and he described the wood as “floppy” and cardboard-y, at least to tap on. Nothing remarkable about it, except perhaps that apart from the visual aspects, his expectations would have been pretty low. He was surprised therefore at the quality of the instruments that came out of it—truly exceptional he said. I was only able to play one, but I have never forgotten it, simply amazing energy in it. And I say that as someone who is not especially in love with the appearance of the Tree. But this was a once in a lifetime guitar.

Yes, the sound of each guitar built with The Tree is quite unique, playing all three guitars would have been even more memorable. When you pick up the raw wood, it is magical and I can see where someone might use floppy, but there is something about the feel that just draws you to it. Like looking into the flames of a fire. Thank you for your reply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6lVt399Dkw

[ianLP59]

I am an owner. I took delivery of a guitar made by Tom Sands last year, model M-12; so a 12 fret guitar. Given the high price of this wood, I was a little apprehensive hoping that the guitar would be something more than purely a trophy instrument. My fears proved unfounded. It is by any standard a remarkable instrument and up there with the very best and I have played a significant number of high end guitars over the years. A professional musician friend of mine has played this guitar on a couple of occasions and was very impressed indeed. Of course, the end product has at least as much to do with the builder as the materials used in its construction.

I am extremely happy with this guitar...

Cheers,

Ian

[FrankCousins]

Not trying to dismiss any of this, as I suspect these are remarkable instruments built by remarkable builders, but I am asking more from a psychological perspective: is there an element of confirmation bias in how we judge this wood given the rareness and 'mystique' around it?

How would a blind hearing (not by owners or builders) go down? An audience of experienced players and owners of diverse high end instruments - how would they compare several instruments made from the Tree versus those made with BRW or cuban Mahogany or other high end tone woods?

Think it would be interesting.

[rd boyda]

Originally Posted by ianLP59

I am an owner. I took delivery of a guitar made by Tom Sands last year, model M-12; so a 12 fret guitar. Given the high price of this wood, I was a little apprehensive hoping that the guitar would be something more than purely a trophy instrument. My fears proved unfounded. It is by any standard a remarkable instrument and up there with the very best and I have played a significant number of high end guitars over the years. A professional musician friend of mine has played this guitar on a couple of occasions and was very impressed indeed. Of course, the end product has at least as much to do with the builder as the materials used in its construction.

I am extremely happy with this guitar...

Cheers,

Ian

I think you are absolutely correct when you mention how important the luthier is in this process. There is a wide moat between the upper echelon luthiers and and the rest of the extremely talented group. Tom Sands makes some amazing guitars and I can just imagine how it must sound. Thank you for you input.

[rd boyda]

Originally Posted by FrankCousins

Not trying to dismiss any of this, as I suspect these are remarkable instruments built by remarkable builders, but I am asking more from a psychological perspective: is there an element of confirmation bias in how we judge this wood given the rareness and 'mystique' around it?

How would a blind hearing (not by owners or builders) go down? An audience of experienced players and owners of diverse high end instruments - how would they compare several instruments made from the Tree versus those made with BRW or cuban Mahogany or other high end tone woods?

Think it would be interesting.

This is an interesting thought since bias is inherent in any comparison. Mahogany is a very different sound than BRW (as is everything compared to it), and a blind sound test would be a fun experiment. Players have such a keen ear and hear things that seem to bounce off my eardrums or aren't ever processed by my brain. I have seen equipment used to measure tone and sounds, but they always seem to have that mechanical/tech edge that fails to include the human experience. Wonderul insight, Thank You.

[Tim McKnight]

So far, I've built four and Adrianne has built one guitar using the Tree mahogany. I am surprised by Richard's tap tone comments because all sets we acquired have been exceptionally lively to tap with a deep and dark resonance approaching RW. Between the five guitars two have had Florentine cutaways which gave me the heebie geebies during the bending process but all turned out unscathed. It gives one pause while bending because there are no spare sets of Tree sides waiting on the shelf to substitute if life throws you a curve ball. I know a couple other builders who have not been so lucky and have had the sides literally fall apart on the upper bout radii.

All five of our builds have far exceeded our expectations. I only wish we had a lifetime supply of Tree Mahogany on hand because I'd happily close out my building career using only The Tree wood because it truly is that predictably good.

[FrankCousins]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

The Tree wood because it truly is that predictably good.

Is that because it is actually from the same tree though? ;-)

I love this discussion about the inherent quality of specific tone wood and how makers excel with it, especially as I do wonder if unconsciously, a fraction of extra attention is not given to it during the build process?

My interest here is as mentioned more in the psychology of how we perceive quality especially tonally as it is also subjective, but how much that is influenced by expectation is fascinating, and of course our expectation is exceptionally high given the cost

It's also easy to forget that ultimately the best judge should be an audience, not makers, players etc, no matter how inexperienced they might be, given that it's for them we created music.

[FrankCousins]

Originally Posted by healdsburgarts

I have seen equipment used to measure tone and sounds, but they always seem to have that mechanical/tech edge that fails to include the human experience.

This is where it gets really interesting, as its easy to dismiss the emotional connection - how often have we heard beautiful music played by a gifted artist that we start to equate some of that beauty to the instrument? Or given how wonderful something looks and how amazing something is made, we are in awe of it?

I am also thinking about my how my own bias works and how easy it is to dismiss instruments as likely to be less good, because of the name of the headstock? How we are 'surprised' if we pick up something from less well known manufacturer or builder, or made from lesser woods the its does sound good to us?

So who is sending me a nice guitar made from 'The Tree' to test out ;-)

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

So far, I've built four and Adrianne has built one guitar using the Tree mahogany. I am surprised by Richard's tap tone comments because all sets we acquired have been exceptionally lively to tap with a deep and dark resonance approaching RW. Between the five guitars two have had Florentine cutaways which gave me the heebie geebies during the bending process but all turned out unscathed. It gives one pause while bending because there are no spare sets of Tree sides waiting on the shelf to substitute if life throws you a curve ball. I know a couple other builders who have not been so lucky and have had the sides literally fall apart on the upper bout radii.

All five of our builds have far exceeded our expectations. I only wish we had a lifetime supply of Tree Mahogany on hand because I'd happily close out my building career using only The Tree wood because it truly is that predictably good.

Hi Tim,
Do you have comparisons, or thoughts in general, of the tonal characteristics of The Tree Mahogany compared to very dense Cuban Mahogany? Or, what other tonewood is most closely related tonally to The Tree?

[rd boyda]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

So far, I've built four and Adrianne has built one guitar using the Tree mahogany. I am surprised by Richard's tap tone comments because all sets we acquired have been exceptionally lively to tap with a deep and dark resonance approaching RW. Between the five guitars two have had Florentine cutaways which gave me the heebie geebies during the bending process but all turned out unscathed. It gives one pause while bending because there are no spare sets of Tree sides waiting on the shelf to substitute if life throws you a curve ball. I know a couple other builders who have not been so lucky and have had the sides literally fall apart on the upper bout radii.

All five of our builds have far exceeded our expectations. I only wish we had a lifetime supply of Tree Mahogany on hand because I'd happily close out my building career using only The Tree wood because it truly is that predictably good.

I watched a luthier bend the sides for an LP-type cutaway, I felt my bones cracking as he made the bend! The tension was so thick even the air felt heavy. If you really want some fun try making a Linda Manzur wedge. The end product though is something to behold. My my my...a florentine cutaway. They should put that in a movie.

[rd boyda]

Originally Posted by FrankCousins

Is that because it is actually from the same tree though? ;-)

I love this discussion about the inherent quality of specific tone wood and how makers excel with it, especially as I do wonder if unconsciously, a fraction of extra attention is not given to it during the build process?

My interest here is as mentioned more in the psychology of how we perceive quality especially tonally as it is also subjective, but how much that is influenced by expectation is fascinating, and of course our expectation is exceptionally high given the cost

It's also easy to forget that ultimately the best judge should be an audience, not makers, players etc, no matter how inexperienced they might be, given that it's for them we created music.

You are right to mention the attention a Luthier focuses on when building with The Tree. Attention to detail, measuring and remeasuring, carefully thinking about each and every step they take, even though they have done it hundreds of times or more. Even with all that experience it still rattles the nerves. I have watched the build of 4 Tree guitars and each one was emotionally draining. I think the attention and emotion of the builds come through in the final product when the player strikes that first chord and the listener is treated with something special.