Your Better Half

[Jaden]

I’m not married and never have been - but I think it’s one of the most interesting subjects when two people put their lives together into a cooperative venture by which (I think) an exponential output, productivity, creative possibilities for future planning can far exceed what a single person is able to do in a lifetime (in an ideal relationship).

What do you think of marriage in particular, the greater possibilities of it providing “the good life”?

[RedJoker]

Though I like being married, my success rate so far has only been 50/50. In both my marriages, I felt like I could be a better, more productive person as part of that 'team' than I could by myself.

[DungBeatle]

My wife freed me up so I could spend more time writing. We were a piano duo team and I wrote our originals and arrangements. I never would have had time to do that and work 40 hours per week and take care of all the household chores too. She was a gem...
~Bob

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I’m not married and never have been - but I think it’s one of the most interesting subjects when two people put their lives together into a cooperative venture by which (I think) an exponential output, productivity, creative possibilities for future planning can far exceed what a single person is able to do in a lifetime (in an ideal relationship).

What do you think of marriage in particular, the greater possibilities of it providing “the good life”?

Is the constant here a married couple who has no children? It seems to me when you ad kids in the mix, it kind of squelches the exponential increase in "output and productivity".....or at least reduces it quite a bit.

As far as marriage, in and of itself, PROVIDING the good life...I would probably disagree with that concept based on how few married couples I know that are experiencing anything near that.

As Yogi said "you can observe a lot just by watching"

[Bob Womack]

Hi!

I've been married for thirty-nine years. We came from very different backgrounds, geographical areas, tastes, and customs. We got married while we were both in college, when I was twenty-three and she was a month short of twenty. Sounds like it breaks all the current rules, huh?

First, the direct answer to your question: I can't think of anything in life (other than maintaining your spiritual life) that is more rewarding and gives more satisfaction than a good marriage. I was privileged to be the child of a wonderful marriage where my parents were best friends. They did everything together and loved nothing better than being together. They were "thick as thieves." When I was considering marriage that was the model that I wanted to live.

Secondly, is it natural? NO. We begin our relationships with a "love because," because of the things we like about the other person. After the initial business of falling in love and enjoying the fireworks at the beginning of a new relationship, there is a lot of adaptation. A current opinion going around is, "I shouldn't have to change because I get married." It is simply not true. Marriage is about taking two individuals and molding them into one. To accomplish that, you have to not only change, but scrutinize yourself, look for your own bad traits, and get them under control for the sake of the other person. That means rubbing against each other and having conflict. Author Ruth Bell Graham said, "If the two of you don't fight, one of you is unnecessary." If both of you are complete, valid people, there has to be disagreement. The key to a successful marriage is learning to love and respect the other person so much that you learn to resolve disagreement to the other person's satisfaction.

Thirdly, so is conflict forever? The answer is no. Somewhere around the 7-10 year mark couples reach a point where they begin to realize that this "perfect" spouse they chose has bad and annoying characteristics that they are never going to be able to "fix." That is a crisis point for many marriages because the family has often grow to include kids, the responsibilities have begun to peak, and the benefits have often reached a dip. It's called "the seven year itch," the ultimate expression of "grass-is-greenerism." A successful marriage may have a crisis point where there has to be confrontation, negotiation, and maybe (probably) counseling, and then the partners learn to love each other "despite." But even that is a phase. You move through "love despite" back to "love because," going back to the initial things that attracted you to this person and/or a newfound respect for your spouse because of the new commitments and forgiveness after the crisis. And eventually, with enough commitment, you find that the two of you rarely clash. You see disagreement coming and you take steps to prevent it.

But here is the real secret of marriage: it is like a savings account. You make an initial deposit and it isn't much. If you invest in it, it slowly begins to grow. Eventually, if you invest in it for a long time and don't withdraw from it (infidelity, disrespect, abusiveness, etc.) it begins to snowball. The benefits don't really begin to come in a big way until you have faithfully invested in it over a period of time. But both of the people involved have to be committed to the marriage, to the dream of building a marriage that is better than when you first started via fidelity, sacrifice, putting the other person first, and investment.

We are once again coming up on the Christmas season and everyone is talking about getting gifts, but I can honestly say that nothing brings me more joy in life than pleasing my wife at Christmas time.


Bob

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Hi!

I've been married for thirty-nine years. We came from very different backgrounds, geographical areas, tastes, and customs. We got married while we were both in college, when I was twenty-three and she was a month short of twenty. Sounds like it breaks all the current rules, huh?

First, the direct answer to your question: I can't think of anything in life (other than maintaining your spiritual life) that is more rewarding and gives more satisfaction than a good marriage. I was privileged to be the child of a wonderful marriage where my parents were best friends. They did everything together and loved nothing better than being together. They were "thick as thieves." When I was considering marriage that was the model that I wanted to live.

Secondly, is it natural? NO. We begin our relationships with a "love because," because of the things we like about the other person. After the initial business of falling in love and enjoying the fireworks at the beginning of a new relationship, there is a lot of adaptation. A current opinion going around is, "I shouldn't have to change because I get married." It is simply not true. Marriage is about taking two individuals and molding them into one. To accomplish that, you have to not only change, but scrutinize yourself, look for your own bad traits, and get them under control for the sake of the other person. That means rubbing against each other and having conflict. Author Ruth Bell Graham said, "If the two of you don't fight, one of you is unnecessary." If both of you are complete, valid people, there has to be disagreement. The key to a successful marriage is learning to love and respect the other person so much that you learn to resolve disagreement to the other person's satisfaction.

Thirdly, so is conflict forever? The answer is no. Somewhere around the 7-10 year mark couples reach a point where they begin to realize that this "perfect" spouse they chose has bad and annoying characteristics that they are never going to be able to "fix." That is a crisis point for many marriages because the family has often grow to include kids, the responsibilities have begun to peak, and the benefits have often reached a dip. It's called "the seven year itch," the ultimate expression of "grass-is-greenerism." A successful marriage may have a crisis point where there has to be confrontation, negotiation, and maybe (probably) counseling, and then the partners learn to love each other "despite." But even that is a phase. You move through "love despite" back to "love because," going back to the initial things that attracted you to this person and/or a newfound respect for your spouse because of the new commitments and forgiveness after the crisis. And eventually, with enough commitment, you find that the two of you rarely clash. You see disagreement coming and you take steps to prevent it.

But here is the real secret of marriage: it is like a savings account. You make an initial deposit and it isn't much. If you invest in it, it slowly begins to grow. Eventually, if you invest in it for a long time and don't withdraw from it (infidelity, disrespect, abusiveness, etc.) it begins to snowball. The benefits don't really begin to come in a big way until you have faithfully invested in it over a period of time. But both of the people involved have to be committed to the marriage, to the dream of building a marriage that is better than when you first started via fidelity, sacrifice, putting the other person first, and investment.

We are once again coming up on the Christmas season and everyone is talking about getting gifts, but I can honestly say that nothing brings me more joy in life than pleasing my wife at Christmas time.


Bob

Wow, that brought some tears to my eyes reading this - I know a good segment of the readership here is ‘baby boomer’ generation, and I remember when the term ‘the ‘me’ generation’ was used to identify a shift in priorities, back in the ‘70s, but putting the other person first, dependent on equal commitment, opens an expanded consciousness too. But it’s a lot of work to maintain a good relationship, and it should and can be very rewarding, and can bring out the best in people, I think.

Thanks for sharing, all.

[rmp]

I met my wife in 9th grade in 1973. We married in 1977.

We just passed the 42 year mark at the end of October.

So,, Why has it worked? All this time? Still happy, Still best friends? I don't have the answer, I just am thankful everyday this beautiful woman I married has actually put up with me for all these years.

[CoffeeFan]

Been there, done that...

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Hi!

I've been married for thirty-nine years. We came from very different backgrounds, geographical areas, tastes, and customs. We got married while we were both in college, when I was twenty-three and she was a month short of twenty. Sounds like it breaks all the current rules, huh?

First, the direct answer to your question: I can't think of anything in life (other than maintaining your spiritual life) that is more rewarding and gives more satisfaction than a good marriage. I was privileged to be the child of a wonderful marriage where my parents were best friends. They did everything together and loved nothing better than being together. They were "thick as thieves." When I was considering marriage that was the model that I wanted to live.

Secondly, is it natural? NO. We begin our relationships with a "love because," because of the things we like about the other person. After the initial business of falling in love and enjoying the fireworks at the beginning of a new relationship, there is a lot of adaptation. A current opinion going around is, "I shouldn't have to change because I get married." It is simply not true. Marriage is about taking two individuals and molding them into one. To accomplish that, you have to not only change, but scrutinize yourself, look for your own bad traits, and get them under control for the sake of the other person. That means rubbing against each other and having conflict. Author Ruth Bell Graham said, "If the two of you don't fight, one of you is unnecessary." If both of you are complete, valid people, there has to be disagreement. The key to a successful marriage is learning to love and respect the other person so much that you learn to resolve disagreement to the other person's satisfaction.

Thirdly, so is conflict forever? The answer is no. Somewhere around the 7-10 year mark couples reach a point where they begin to realize that this "perfect" spouse they chose has bad and annoying characteristics that they are never going to be able to "fix." That is a crisis point for many marriages because the family has often grow to include kids, the responsibilities have begun to peak, and the benefits have often reached a dip. It's called "the seven year itch," the ultimate expression of "grass-is-greenerism." A successful marriage may have a crisis point where there has to be confrontation, negotiation, and maybe (probably) counseling, and then the partners learn to love each other "despite." But even that is a phase. You move through "love despite" back to "love because," going back to the initial things that attracted you to this person and/or a newfound respect for your spouse because of the new commitments and forgiveness after the crisis. And eventually, with enough commitment, you find that the two of you rarely clash. You see disagreement coming and you take steps to prevent it.

But here is the real secret of marriage: it is like a savings account. You make an initial deposit and it isn't much. If you invest in it, it slowly begins to grow. Eventually, if you invest in it for a long time and don't withdraw from it (infidelity, disrespect, abusiveness, etc.) it begins to snowball. The benefits don't really begin to come in a big way until you have faithfully invested in it over a period of time. But both of the people involved have to be committed to the marriage, to the dream of building a marriage that is better than when you first started via fidelity, sacrifice, putting the other person first, and investment.

We are once again coming up on the Christmas season and everyone is talking about getting gifts, but I can honestly say that nothing brings me more joy in life than pleasing my wife at Christmas time.


Bob

Hard to argue with that! Very well said, Bob. 39 years and counting for my wife and I.

[raysachs]

I'm another fortunate man who's been married for going on 35 years, almost all of it very happily, and can't imagine (wouldn't want to anyway) any other life. But I don't see it as a "cooperative venture by which an exponential output, productivity, creative possibilities for future planning can far exceed what a single person is able to do in a lifetime". It's not about achievement or productivity or a partnership toward any sort of goal. It's just about loving to hang out with this woman every day. About waking up with her pretty much every morning and falling asleep with her pretty much every night. About loving her and liking her and respecting her more than anyone else I know.

And about having had a family together where we did "create" two sweet little baby girls that somehow grew to be amazing young women who are very fine people and great company today. One of whom just got married a little over a month ago and is starting that phase of her life now, the other of whom is a doctor who just finished her residency last summer and has just started in her first full time medical practice last month (timed to work around her sister's wedding) and who has also found a guy who is a wonderful partner for her. Nothing in my life is anywhere near as important as this family, as I'm sure my folks would have said when they were alive about the family they had.

To the extent it's in any way enhanced my "productivity" or "creative possibilities" is just by giving my life such a stable and happy foundation that everything else is just gravy and I can take it as seriously or as casually as I want. Beyond the basics of making a living of course, which is obviously mandatory. But while my wife and I have both been fortunate enough to have had careers we're proud of and mostly even enjoyed and found satisfying, the overwhelming priority for those careers was just to take care of our family. Again, any other achievements or satisfactions were just gravy.

Not everyone has or should have the same priorities or idea of what a successful life is. But for me, it's always been about family and, probably because that was my priority, it's been by far the most meaningful and happiest part of my life. Can't imagine a life spent either alone or with anyone other than the wonderful woman I was lucky enough to meet when I was ready for her. I guess if circumstances and timing had been different, it might have worked as well with someone else. But I can't imagine it could have worked better. And it wouldn't have resulted in the same children and I can't imagine a world without my daughters in it, and wouldn't want to live in it.

So, yeah, I've been really fortunate and consider myself the luckiest man alive, largely because of my marriage. But not for any of the reasons the initial post seemed to be getting at...

PS, having read Bob's post, a lot of that rings true. You can't "fix" anyone. If you can't imagine living with them for the rest of your lives just as they are, then don't commit to doing so. You'll inevitably wear down some of each other's rough edges over time, but you're not gonna change the other person in any meaningful way - marry someone you like and love, not someone you think you COULD like or love if he/she would only change into your idealized version of a spouse. And, yeah, in a sense, it's like a bank account with compounding interest. Some amount of difficulty along the way is inevitable because, you know, people. But you work through those things and at some point you realize the hardest work is done and it's been completely worth it, and then you're just clipping coupons, baby! It gets really really good. And then I imagine, when we get old enough that we start failing, then the final round of hard part will reimpose itself. But I gotta figure the foundation that's in place will make that easier to get through. And hopefully, our daughters will be essential support for us then as we were for them when they were little, and as we've been for our own parents in their last years (my wife's mom is still with us, but is getting well along).

-Ray

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by raysachs

I'm another fortunate man who's been married for going on 35 years, almost all of it very happily, and can't imagine (wouldn't want to anyway) any other life. But I don't see it as a "cooperative venture by which an exponential output, productivity, creative possibilities for future planning can far exceed what a single person is able to do in a lifetime". It's not about achievement or productivity or a partnership toward any sort of goal. It's just about loving to hang out with this woman every day. About waking up with her pretty much every morning and falling asleep with her pretty much every night. About loving her and liking her and respecting her more than anyone else I know.

And about having had a family together where we did "create" two sweet little baby girls that somehow grew to be amazing young women who are very fine people and great company today. One of whom just got married a little over a month ago and is starting that phase of her life now, the other of whom is a doctor who just finished her residency last summer and has just started in her first full time medical practice last month (timed to work around her sister's wedding) and who has also found a guy who is a wonderful partner for her. Nothing in my life is anywhere near as important as this family, as I'm sure my folks would have said when they were alive about the family they had.

To the extent it's in any way enhanced my "productivity" or "creative possibilities" is just by giving my life such a stable and happy foundation that everything else is just gravy and I can take it as seriously or as casually as I want. Beyond the basics of making a living of course, which is obviously mandatory. But while my wife and I have both been fortunate enough to have had careers we're proud of and mostly even enjoyed and found satisfying, the overwhelming priority for those careers was just to take care of our family. Again, any other achievements or satisfactions were just gravy.

Not everyone has or should have the same priorities or idea of what a successful life is. But for me, it's always been about family and, probably because that was my priority, it's been by far the most meaningful and happiest part of my life. Or a life spent either alone or with anyone other than the wonderful woman I was lucky enough to meet when I was ready for her. I guess if circumstances and timing had been different, it might have worked as well with someone else. But I can't imagine it could have worked better. And it wouldn't have resulted in the same children and I can't imagine a world without my daughters in it, and wouldn't want to live in it.

So, yeah, I've been really fortunate and consider myself the luckiest man alive, largely because of my marriage. But not for any of the reasons the initial post seemed to be getting at...

-Ray

Sounds very natural to me, and providing of the good life too!

“What is the good life” has been a central question asked by philosophers back in ancient times. I had a political science 101 course where most if not all of the lectures attempted to address this question - it turned out to be a class in philosophy but addressed this starting point to a conscious life of purpose, of which marriage has played a central and supportive role throughout the ages.

[Mr. Jelly]

I was blessed with a soul mate at a very early age. I didn't particularly want one at an early age but I somehow knew how precious it was. That never went away to this day. She has always been a bit of a mystery to me and to this day I'm not sure I really know her. Though I do. I explained it the other day to an acquaintance that over the years when one of us faltered the other took the lead or when one of us got wore out the other ran interference. No one gets a relationship like I have but I did. Even if she didn't. We've been together fifty two years and married for forty seven. We're both retired and things are better than ever. It's a wonder I didn't screw it up.

[PorkPieGuy]

Originally Posted by Jaden

What do you think of marriage in particular, the greater possibilities of it providing “the good life”?

The "no religious discussion rule" keep me from being anything but general statements. With that said, I've been married for 17 years. My wife is my best friend, and I think about her all the time when we aren't together. I want to spend all of my time with her. I'm pretty sure if it were not from here, I wouldn't be around.

[Dirk Hofman]

Been married going on 20 years coming up in June. To say my life is considerably better for it would be the understatement of my life. She's my friend, companion, mother of my children, and of course we have the love and all the things personal about a marriage. She's expanded my family, my circle of friends, and our combined incomes has expanded our finances to a significant degree.

Fair to say I'm better off.

[golfreggie]

I loved both Bob's and Ray's input. For me it can be shortened to : Not "what's in it for me?" but what can I do today for my wife/husband?" If both are fortunate enough to understand AND live by that, a relationship that does become One is very likely. Thanks for the topic