Recording with a sideways stereo mic.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Rixtoy

Two thoughts:

1) When you ask for comments, don't be surprised by getting comments*.

2) Forget the comments - I liked the end product.

* I have withheld my comments . . .

On the Record part of the forum usually those asking for advice or opinions have specific questions or are seeking fresh sets of ears.
Pretty much what makes it so useful.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Rixtoy

Two thoughts:

1) When you ask for comments, don't be surprised by getting comments*.

2) Forget the comments - I liked the end product.

* I have withheld my comments . . .

Exact meaning kind of vague here ?
Actually what the OP asked was if anyone else had taken a stereo mic and turned it sideways ,,, then went on to explain (specifically an X/Y config stereo mic) rotated in to a vertical orientation rather than usual horizontal, in an effort to get a bit more separation with a single stereo mic as opposed to a two separate mono mic set up .

Then asked about balancing the reverb. all of which both Rick and I attempted to address after trying to get some more clarification on exact method .
Are you saying we should have offered no comments ? I am not sure the OP was really after replies stating only "No comment"

[lkingston]

Actually, I am grateful for the honest comments. Even when they sting a little and I snap back, I appreciate them very much. If I want complements, I ask my personal friends and they will tell me “it’s great” regardless of whether it is decent or terrible.

I believe the “weird echo on the vocal” is the sound bouncing off the relatively close ceiling. The downward pointing mic faces a carpet floor which absorbs any high/mid frequency reflection. Yeah, that does make it sound like the vocal and the guitar are recorded in different spaces. I can’t think of anything off the bat to do about it (aside from maybe carpeting the ceiling).

An aside: growing up I always had a soft voice. I think it was largely because I had such good hearing. Now my hearing is terrible and I wear hearing aids. Recently, I casually remarked about my soft voice to my audiologist and he about fell out of his chair laughing. He then told me that I speak far louder than the average person! You know that experience we have all had where we wear headphones and start shouting? I believe that that same principle has happened to me as I have lost hearing. Anyway, when I record, my voice is far louder than my playing. At a gig it is a non-issue because I can balance out the pickup and my singing easily. Recording all acoustic is different.

Anyway, the point here is that I believe my voice rings out and is reflected in the room whereas my soft no-nails fingerstyle guitar has very little room interaction.

I think for my next recording I will also record the magnetic soundhole pickup and blend it in to boost and fill out the guitar frequencies a little. That will more closely match my live sound anyway where I play with a dual magnetic pickup / microphone in my guitar.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I believe the “weird echo on the vocal” is the sound bouncing off the relatively close ceiling. The downward pointing mic faces a carpet floor which absorbs any high/mid frequency reflection. Yeah, that does make it sound like the vocal and the guitar are recorded in different spaces. I can’t think of anything off the bat to do about it (aside from maybe carpeting the ceiling).

Short of buying acoustic panels for the ceiling and putting up a "cloud" (which, BTW, is what I'm about to do because of the same issue), I wonder if one of those mic surrounds like the sE Reflexion Filter might help in this case? They're not a cure-all, but can help in some situations. Do you already have panels behind the mic at all?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Actually, I am grateful for the honest comments. Even when they sting a little and I snap back, I appreciate them very much. If I want complements, I ask my personal friends and they will tell me “it’s great” regardless of whether it is decent or terrible.

I believe the “weird echo on the vocal” is the sound bouncing off the relatively close ceiling. The downward pointing mic faces a carpet floor which absorbs any high/mid frequency reflection. Yeah, that does make it sound like the vocal and the guitar are recorded in different spaces. I can’t think of anything off the bat to do about it (aside from maybe carpeting the ceiling).

An aside: growing up I always had a soft voice. I think it was largely because I had such good hearing. Now my hearing is terrible and I wear hearing aids. Recently, I casually remarked about my soft voice to my audiologist and he about fell out of his chair laughing. He then told me that I speak far louder than the average person! You know that experience we have all had where we wear headphones and start shouting? I believe that that same principle has happened to me as I have lost hearing. Anyway, when I record, my voice is far louder than my playing. At a gig it is a non-issue because I can balance out the pickup and my singing easily. Recording all acoustic is different.

Anyway, the point here is that I believe my voice rings out and is reflected in the room whereas my soft no-nails fingerstyle guitar has very little room interaction.

I think for my next recording I will also record the magnetic soundhole pickup and blend it in to boost and fill out the guitar frequencies a little. That will more closely match my live sound anyway where I play with a dual magnetic pickup / microphone in my guitar.

Bouncing of the ceiling could indeed be hitting the up facing mic .

I just had another thought given that all through the 50's and 60 s many Folk singers recorded using a single mic and simply finding the right balance between vocal and guitar and used the bleed as part of the combined sound.

With that in mind you could try rotating the mic back to horizontal (That might take the ceiling out of the sound ?) Still record to two separate tracks, but while recording pan both mics to the center and just find what sounds good in your one good ear. Then when mixing pan them back R and L for anything you are going to release for public listening . And you can even do version summed to mono for your listening

[lkingston]

I’ve done experiments with a single mic as well. Because my singing is louder than my guitar playing, I have to place the mic below my guitar facing up. It actually sounds pretty good except that there is even more reflection off the ceiling.

I have also tried augmenting the sound of the acoustic guitar with an acoustic amp, which sounds good but electronic.

I have also tried close miking both the guitar and the voice, and while the vocal mic is relatively free of guitar, the guitar mic has lots of vocal. I don’t really like the sound of a guitar close miked, at least with a cardiod mic.

What might work is an omnidirectional mic very close to the guitar, but I don’t have one.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I’ve done experiments with a single mic as well. Because my singing is louder than my guitar playing, I have to place the mic below my guitar facing up. It actually sounds pretty good except that there is even more reflection off the ceiling.

I have also tried augmenting the sound of the acoustic guitar with an acoustic amp, which sounds good but electronic.

I have also tried close miking both the guitar and the voice, and while the vocal mic is relatively free of guitar, the guitar mic has lots of vocal. I don’t really like the sound of a guitar close miked, at least with a cardiod mic.

What might work is an omnidirectional mic very close to the guitar, but I don’t have one.

Did you try not panning the mikes to center yet?

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Did you try not panning the mikes to center yet?

I only hear out of one ear, so I doubt I would be able to tell any difference.

[Trent in WA]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I only hear out of one ear, so I doubt I would be able to tell any difference.

lkingston, I'm in the same boat that you're in--I also have single-sided deafness, which makes recording a PITA at times. I spent a chunk of this summer recording a batch of songs at home using a couple of AT2035s in an x-y configuration to record my guitar in stereo in a smallish, untreated room.

If you're checking your recording in headphones, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you're using the phone's accessibility features to electronically sum the L and R channels, but if you're monitoring on speakers, you could tell the difference. I'm neither an audiologist nor an acoustician, so I can't say this for sure, but my hunch is that when you're listening to a stereo track using speakers, your hearing favors whichever speaker is louder and adjusts accordingly. Over the course of a few weeks of trying to get a decent-sounding mix on the guitar, I realized that part of the problem was that one channel was picking up more room resonances and comb filtering than the other and required different EQ'ing, which I worked on by EQ'ing one channel at a time. (I had to do some of that in headphones, which required project management skills, oy.)

That said, the recording is lovely on my computer speakers and I'm picking up no phase issues. I'd pop it back into stereo, add reverb to the guitar channel, add less to the vocal channel or keep it dry, and call it a day. And your performance is really good. It's a fine rendition and recording of a song that's a favorite of mine too.

Trent

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by Trent in WA

lkingston, I'm in the same boat that you're in--I also have single-sided deafness, which makes recording a PITA at times...

I have a nice set of near field monitors in my studio, and I do get some sense of stereo imaging by moving my head between the speakers, but it's nothing like when I could hear out of both ears, unfortunately. I use stereo for reverb returns, keyboard patches, and stereo miked instruments, but I never pan things anymore. I would just be guessing as to whether or not it added anything.