Any Pilots Here?

[Huskyman]

Any pilots here? I have a question and would like an opinion. Thanks.

[Kerbie]

Yes, I'm a pilot. Is this a test?

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Yes, I'm a pilot. Is this a test?

Lol. Nope. Im not a pilot but i am fascinated by it and i watch a lot of youtube videos on people who fly and also a lot of them were recreations of many airline accidents over the years. It's been very educational to me but that's as far as it goes for me.

So there is a man on youtube who had a career in the Navy and he has 1000 hours in a F16 and has flown many other aircraft and now he is retired and owns a small jet for his business and also recreational use. He will post a lot of vids that are mainly used as a teaching tool. So his newest vid he was at his desk and he was a bit angry because he just got off the phone with the FAA. It seems that student pilot who saw his latest video reported a safety violation to the FAA and they opened up a case about it.

He then played the video where he is landing. He touches down nicely and as soon as he does you can hear the controller tell a plane in back of him to enter the runway and hold until he is given clearance. So you can see his speed get to about 25 mph and he is just at the point of exiting the runway when the pilot in back asks if he has the ok to takeoff yet and the controller tells him to wait for confirmation that this man who just landed has exited the runway. So as he is making his turn to exit he picks up the radio and tells the atc that he is off the runway. When he says that is half off but in one second he is fully off. The plane in back of him has not started yet and is one mile back. So this young kid who is a student pilot comments on his youtube channel and then reports it to the FAA. Is that normal or is that just the age we live in these days? There was no way there could have been any type of incident over this. I just wanted another pilots opinion on this one. I will post the video.

[Kerbie]

Well, that's an interesting story. Let me look.

[Kerbie]

First of all, this event happened at an uncontrolled airport. There are no air traffic controllers of any sort. These pilots are talking on a CTAF... Common Traffic Advisory Frequency. Because there is no ATC, there are no clearances being given. There are all kinds of rules about how to operate on an uncontrolled field, and those rules are federal laws, but ATC is not involved.

I see the picture of what may be the student pilot, but I don't believe he gave his age. If I were the youtuber, I would not have referred to him as a kid, much less some of the other condescending language. Personally, I would never in a million years choose to film my flights and post them on YT for all to see. I don't think it's common for anyone to watch a video and then call the FAA, but people have called the FAA to report pilots for as long as the FAA has been around.

When you say this...

Originally Posted by Huskyman

There was no way there could have been any type of incident over this.

I'm not sure what that means. If the youtuber's nose gear had collapsed as he was calling clear while he was still on 36, he would have stopped on a dime. My guess is the aircraft in position would have started his takeoff roll and that would not have been ideal. The Federal Aviation Regulations don't apply only when an incident is likely. They apply all the time. So, whether or not the FAA acts against the youtuber doesn't depend on whether or not an incident or accident occurred.

Not sure I've answered your question, but if not, I'll be glad to try.

[HodgdonExtreme]

I'm a LOW hours private pilot, so my opinion of anything aviation is worth what you paid for it - nothing.

I didn't look up (and I'm not gonna look up) the FAR/AIM regs - so I can only take the dude's word for it that the complainer didn't actually cite the correct regulations.

But technically, the action was incorrect - calling out "clear" before truly being "clear". As a rank amateur, I probably wouldn't have done it - but ONLY because I'm not a good pilot that is comfortable in the left seat of an airplane.

What do you think of a cop writing you a ticket for running a stop sign if you approached a stop sign, slowed to 0.5mph, carefully looked to see who was coming, and continued on your way? To me, it's a pretty similar situation.

There's the "letter of the law" and then there's the spirit of the law.

One of the commenters on the video summed it up nicely, in my opinion:

Originally Posted by youtube commenter

That kid will grow up to be the president of his Home Owners Association and rise up to the top of his game.

Yep

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

First of all, this event happened at an uncontrolled airport. There are no air traffic controllers of any sort. These pilots are talking on a CTAF... Common Traffic Advisory Frequency. Because there is no ATC, there are no clearances being given. There are all kinds of rules about how to operate on an uncontrolled field, and those rules are federal laws, but ATC is not involved.

I see the picture of what may be the student pilot, but I don't believe he gave his age. If I were the youtuber, I would not have referred to him as a kid, much less some of the other condescending language. Personally, I would never in a million years choose to film my flights and post them on YT for all to see. I don't think it's common for anyone to watch a video and then call the FAA, but people have called the FAA to report pilots for as long as the FAA has been around.

When you say this...



I'm not sure what that means. If the youtuber's nose gear had collapsed as he was calling clear while he was still on 36, he would have stopped on a dime. My guess is the aircraft in position would have started his takeoff roll and that would not have been ideal. The Federal Aviation Regulations don't apply only when an incident is likely. They apply all the time. So, whether or not the FAA acts against the youtuber doesn't depend on whether or not an incident or accident occurred.

Not sure I've answered your question, but if not, I'll be glad to try.

Thanks. I agree that technically it's wrong and I don't know enough about planes to really take a stance. It just seems that even before he put the mic down he was off the runway. Technically wrong yes but not sure I get why a student pilot would take the time to call the FAA. I guess that is my hangup on the situation.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

Thanks. I agree that technically it's wrong and I don't know enough about planes to really take a stance. It just seems that even before he put the mic down he was off the runway. Technically wrong yes but not sure I get why a student pilot would take the time to call the FAA. I guess that is my hangup on the situation.

Husky, I went back to watch again and I have a couple more thoughts. I'm flabbergasted that any youtuber can post his flight and then take offense when something like that occurs. He repeatedly mocked the student pilot, assumed he was young and generally dismissed the guy's gripe. There's really no reason for all that. And the exact number of the FAR is irrelevant. The youtuber is right that radio calls are not required at an uncontrolled field, but he did call clear of the runway when the entire airplane was still on the active runway. That was a mistake, although not one I believe would put him in danger with the FAA. To claim he was trying to allow the Comanche in position to roll sooner is debatable. If that had really been important to him, he would have taken the taxiway prior to the end. The aircraft on downwind hasn't even turned base yet much less final. There was no reason to think he had to hurry off for the Comanche. Interestingly, the Comanche actually called, "Departing runway 36," well before the jet was clear. So, there are a few mistakes going on simultaneously.

To answer why the student pilot would call the FAA is impossible. That was not appropriate. If he wanted to point out the youtuber's improper call, it could have been done on the website without involving the FAA. But as I said, that does happen.

I've got some buddies who spend all day watching these pilot youtubers, so I know they have become quite popular. I've seen some of them posting themselves clearly violating the FARs and I have no idea why guys would want to do that. It makes no sense to me, but I'm sure the FAA gets these reports and watches some of the videos. I imagine they're glad some pilots are willing to provide the FAA with proof of their violations.

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Husky, I went back to watch again and I have a couple more thoughts. I'm flabbergasted that any youtuber can post his flight and then take offense when something like that occurs. He repeatedly mocked the student pilot, assumed he was young and generally dismissed the guy's gripe. There's really no reason for all that.

About six months ago I watched another video from a pilot who did the same thing. He posted videos of his flights. He started this one off by saying that he was unsure if he should post it because he knew he made a mistake but he decided to post it so others would learn from it and not make the same mistake by being complacent.

He was flying into a major airport in the midwest that he had flown into a few months prior and a few times before that. Everytime he had flown there the pattern went to the right. So this time without checking he assumed that the pattern went to the right so the took that course without checking. A pilot of a major airline came on the radio talking to the atc and mentioned what was going on but he had the plane in sight and all was well. This guy heard the call and immediately realized his mistake and made the correction. So him being complacent like that could have been a major disaster.

There were thousands of comments on that one that went both ways. I think most pilots said he made a bad mistake and praised him for posting it so others could learn but there were a few comments that were not so nice about his error.

I am addicted to these videos! It's the closest I will ever come to flying!

[Fogducker]

ATC hands off the enroute traffic to the control tower for local control and they tell the pilot(Who has been monitoring the local traffic) winds/direction, what runway will be used, right or left traffic, where and when to report.. Upon landing the pilot reports when he is "down and clear" he is then handed off to ground control who dictates his path to the General Aviation area, make sure to follow these directions and DO NOT cross other runways without permission.

Fog

[Kerbie]

Husky,

That's kind of odd because the rules governing which way a traffic pattern goes apply only when ATC is not operating. If they are, the pattern goes whichever way ATC says it goes. And major airports typically have ATC present.

It is possible and legal for an airliner to land at an uncontrolled airport. When that happens, the pilots usually terminate ATC communications before entering the pattern. If that's impossible due to bad weather, then no other traffic is allowed at the field until the airliner lands and calls ATC to terminate their flight plan.

[6L6]

The guy should have waited until the exiting plane was clear. A similar rule says you don't initiate a turn after takeoff until you've passed the end of the runway.

Lots of people break the rules on both of these things. But it will bust you on your ATP ride if you do it.

My background:

USAF Command Pilot
USAF Instructor Pilot
10,000+ hours
ATP

[Bob Womack]

These videos are like negligent discharge videos for firearms: It never ends well. In safety-conscious communities the tendency is for everyone to gather round and vehemently skewer the hapless person who made the mistake while a little voice is internally whispering, "That could have been me."


Bob

[HodgdonExtreme]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

...He posted videos of his flights. He started this one off by saying that he was unsure if he should post it because he knew he made a mistake but he decided to post it so others would learn from it and not make the same mistake by being complacent...

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

These videos are like negligent discharge videos for firearms: It never ends well. In safety-conscious communities the tendency is for everyone to gather round and vehemently skewer the hapless person who made the mistake while a little voice is internally whispering, "That could have been me."

One of things I really about the aviation community is their willingness to acknowledge and share their mistakes and shortcomings with each other - so that everyone can learn from it.

I watch many aviation videos on the 'tube, but was wholly unaware there was a movement for self-appointed youtube FAA inspectors to sniff out mistakes so they can rat pilots out. It's disappointing though I guess not terribly surprising.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by HodgdonExtreme

... but was wholly unaware there was a movement for self-appointed youtube FAA inspectors to sniff out mistakes so they can rat pilots out. It's disappointing though I guess not terribly surprising.

I think that's a large leap.