Synesthesia anyone?

[TRose]

I’m relatively new to music and the guitar. I came to it late - early 50’s. While learning a finger style version of Schubert’s Ave Maria I began having a reoccurring dream where I could “see” the musical note magnified and could take a long look at the geometric make up of the note. I now “think” I know what a C’s geometric fractal looks like.
Uhm, yes, I’m sober.
I also had an experience where I contracted the flu. It was while I was trying to learn the fingering to Blackbird. While sleeping with high fever I “played” it in my mind for what seemed like 1,000 times. It was a serious fever dream. A “shape” of cord progression and fingerings where seared Into my mind. The next day, to my wife’s amazement, I could play it as if I had been playing it all my life.
As a clinician I am familiar with synesthesia in general but was specifically unaware of Spacial Synesthesia, one of the 60 types of synesthesia.
In talking to many friends, some musicians, many not, Ive found individuals who have reoccurring scents perceived when hearing music. They could not tell me if the specific smell varies with key, genres, tempos, etc.. Some individuals report seeing color with music. Some see music in three dimensions. There are others I’m sure. All the people who reported such experience said they always assumed everyone had similar sensations ( didn’t realize it was unique) or they had never discussed it because they thought it was seemed too “crazy”.
Of course there are many types of synesthesia, with only a fraction involving audible stimuli.
Anyone on the forum with a synesthetic experience?
Cheers.

[jpmist]

All the people who reported such experience said they always assumed everyone had similar sensations ( didn’t realize it was unique) or they had never discussed it because they thought it was seemed too “crazy”.
Of course there are many types of synesthesia, with only a fraction involving audible stimuli.
Anyone on the forum with a synesthetic experience?

Congrats, having read these forums for years yours is the first one i've seen on this subject! So kudos for originality.

BUt me no, however I can literally replay in my head fingerstyle tunes I've made up. But nothing in the realm of mind/body/music would come as a surprise to me. I'm still astonished that I can play 1/8th note arpeggios fingerstyle for measures at a time without glitches. That requires my right hand fingertips hitting strings to 1 mm accuracy and I marvel at that sometimes.

[Jimi2]

That’s fascinating. I don’t know much about the subject, but there’s certainly some deep way in which music impacts/is perceived by the brain. It doesn’t happen for me these days, but when I was younger and in the midst of decidedly non-sober moments, I could sometimes see music as colors. Ambient sound textures would have perceivable shapes on occasion too.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by TRose

In talking to many friends, some musicians, many not, Ive found individuals who have reoccurring scents perceived when hearing music. They could not tell me if the specific smell varies with key, genres, tempos, etc.. Some individuals report seeing color with music. Some see music in three dimensions. There are others I’m sure.

I've never perceived a scent while hearing music. Or otherwise. I don't have a sense of smell - haven't since I was about 8 years old. It's been so long since I last perceived a scent, I don't even remember what it was like, although I recall it happened via my nose.

I absolutely HAVE seen colors with music and I absolutely HAVE seen music in three dimensions a number of times. I was NOT, however, sober when these perceptions occurred. My brain needed (and got) some serious unlocking before these perceptions occurred. I don't value these perceptions any less because of that though. They were the types of substances known for opening up parts of our brains that most of us don't have access to on a day to day basis and allowing us to visit those places. I'm sure there are people who do and I suspect they may largely be our most artistic sorts. It was all rather profound, and I remember several of those occurrences like they were yesterday, which they very definitely were not...

I've never spontaneously fingerpicked ANYTHING based on a series of dreams or anything else. Every little bit of fingerpicking I've been able to get done has been the result of insane amounts of repetition. To the point that I've had fingerpicking dreams, but it's more a result of doing something so much that it worms it's way into my subconscious - it's not the inspiration for doing something based on the skill developed through the dream... I remember when I was first learning to use a graphical user interface on a computer back in the mid-80s having MacIntosh dreams. When I was a ski-bum and worked the ski lifts, I had dreams of the giant cable wheel that the seats went around to start their journey back down the mountain. All kinds of weird stuff like that which didn't help me learn to do anything, but reflected something I'd gotten to know very intensively in recent times.

-Ray

[birdsong]

I would encourage you to read what Oliver Sachs wrote about this sort of thing. He did clinical research on it and much is covered in his book Musicophilia. He reports on a lot of bizarre mind/body/music experiences.

There was another book I had and recently gave away. Some similar stuff on music and the brain. A bit broader than Sachs volume but still touching on some of this. I wish I could remember the author - it was 15+ years ago.

In any case, you'd enjoy reading the Sachs book I suspect. Even though it was 2007 it's full of great cases.

John

[Brent Hahn]

Many old-school recording engineers would agree that a multitrack recording done with a Neve console and an a Studer recorder presents a deep black background, while an MCI console and recorder will give you an inferior muddy brown. I'm one of them.

[TRose]

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.
Of course there are synesthetic experiences that are induced. There are substances that allow alternative neuronal pathways to fire with convincing results. And, frankly, I’m not sure my experiences would be strictly classified as an authentic synesthetic experience since they occurred in a dream state.
There are individuals who don’t see black and white- everything is in color. So for them, when they read this text on the forum and each letter has a chromatic identity and has had a chromatic identity as long as they can remember. And they are sober. They all say they feel sorry for us normal folks. Apparently it makes things more interesting. Anyway, they were wired to use the the neuronal pathway that allows this as a default where most have to “unlock” it through pharmacy.
I find it fascinating. I wonder if I had started the study of music and guitar earlier would it have been more pronounced? One can wonder.

[Bob Womack]

I've made my career as a recording engineer/sound designer. I've always thought complex sound clusters such as those involving echo and dynamic modulation had a visual aspect to them. There was also a color and shape associated with equalization and filters, dynamic or static. Also, around large-scale musical compositions I seem to sense dynamic architectural shapes. None of the engineers with whom I worked seemed to experience this but I did. I see sound and music in my imagination.

All I have to do is get really relaxed and listen to YES' "Close to the Edge" or "And You And I" to start it up.

I will say this: in my case, all of these perceptions are so inchoate and indistinct as to beggar description.

Bob

[TRose]

Originally Posted by birdsong

I would encourage you to read what Oliver Sachs wrote about this sort of thing. He did clinical research on it and much is covered in his book Musicophilia. He reports on a lot of bizarre mind/body/music experiences.



There was another book I had and recently gave away. Some similar stuff on music and the brain. A bit broader than Sachs volume but still touching on some of this. I wish I could remember the author - it was 15+ years ago.



In any case, you'd enjoy reading the Sachs book I suspect. Even though it was 2007 it's full of great cases.



John

Thank you, John.
I am familiar with some of Sachs’ writings but not this particular one. Thanks for the suggestion and heads up.
Best
Tom R

Late neurologist and author Oliver Sacks wrote a wonderful book Musicophilia that has a twenty page section on the topic. Really good read.

[Silly Moustache]

Interesting.

I don't know if this is spacial synesthesia, but althought I always look at my audience when I sing, and accompany myself of course, when I take a solo, or instrumental break, I tend to close my eyes, because, as I have tried unsuccessfully to explain, I "see" the notes in my mind, but not in a simple visual sense - inasmuch as I don't see a fretboard or strings, and I don't see notes floating in space ... ?

I do see musical notes in colours - D is green. G is brown, and C is pale blue.

F is, sort of khaki, E is orangey, B is red .. ish, and A is dark blue. I don't like playing in flat/sharp keys - they have no colours.

I'm normal ... right?

[TRose]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Interesting.



I don't know if this is spacial synesthesia, but althought I always look at my audience when I sing, and accompany myself of course, when I take a solo, or instrumental break, I tend to close my eyes, because, as I have tried unsuccessfully to explain, I "see" the notes in my mind, but not in a simple visual sense - inasmuch as I don't see a fretboard or strings, and I don't see notes floating in space ... ?



I do see musical notes in colours - D is green. G is brown, and C is pale blue.



F is, sort of khaki, E is orangey, B is red .. ish, and A is dark blue. I don't like playing in flat/sharp keys - they have no colours.



I'm normal ... right?

Sounds like you have it, Silly Moustache!
Very cool.
You’re much better than normal. But then most of us knew that already.
Cheers!

[TomB'sox]

I first became aware of this while on a plane passing time reading the on board magazine for the airline. There was a featured article on an artist painting music so I naturally was drawn to this.

Her name is Melissa S McCracken and her work is phenomenal to me. I want one so bad, but the ones I have loved so far, I can't afford. The article talked about her not realizing that everyone did not see things the same way until she asked her brother what color C was to him, if I recall correctly. It was then she learned she was "different" than others.

She does commissioned work where people will send her a song and she paints what she sees. It is amazing to me and her work is just stunning. Obviously she sees the colors in the music as she sees them, but still has to have the ability to get this on canvas in the amazing way that she does.

Someday I hope to have one of her paintings.

Here is a link to one of the many articles written about her. This has several examples of her works and the songs she was listening to when she painted them.
https://www.boredpanda.com/i-paint-m...mpaign=organic

[TRose]

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

I first became aware of this while on a plane passing time reading the on board magazine for the airline. There was a featured article on an artist painting music so I naturally was drawn to this.

Her name is Melissa S McCracken and her work is phenomenal to me. I want one so bad, but the ones I have loved so far, I can't afford. The article talked about her not realizing that everyone did not see things the same way until she asked her brother what color C was to him, if I recall correctly. It was then she learned she was "different" than others.

She does commissioned work where people will send her a song and she paints what she sees. It is amazing to me and her work is just stunning. Obviously she sees the colors in the music as she sees them, but still has to have the ability to get this on canvas in the amazing way that she does.

Someday I hope to have one of her paintings.

Here is a link to one of the many articles written about her. This has several examples of her works and the songs she was listening to when she painted them.
https://www.boredpanda.com/i-paint-m...mpaign=organic

Whoa, I’ll check out her and her work. Thanks for the heads up.
After practicing medicine for sometime an illness and the subsequent treatment rendered me unable to practice. I now paint full time. I just finished a 54x66 inch painting of Ave Marie. Who knows where this all could lead.
I’m enjoying the ride.

[Wade Hampton]

From what I understand, many people have some mild form of synesthesia without realizing it. In my case, flavors - particularly those of liquids - have shapes and textures to them. Some are sharp and pointed, others are rounded. Black coffee (which is how I drink it) has a texture like a gravel road. The same thing is true for other liquids.

Different coffee blends and roasts have different three dimensional textures for me, depending on the proportions of acids and other flavor compounds in them, I suppose.

But I wouldn't call myself a "synesthete" - as I wrote, it's very mild, and I, too, was well into adulthood before I realized that most people don't "see" flavors the way that I do.

Andy in the Mother Country wrote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I do see musical notes in colours - D is green. G is brown, and C is pale blue.

F is, sort of khaki, E is orangey, B is red .. ish, and A is dark blue. I don't like playing in flat/sharp keys - they have no colours.

I'm normal ... right?

You're as normal as you need to be!

Linda Ronstadt is the first person I can remember who described music in similar terms. There was a long interview with her at the peak of her fame and popularity in the 1970's, probably in Rolling Stone Magazine. She mentioned that she saw D as green and described a bit more about it.

My reaction was "Hmmmm..." I didn't connect her visual color synesthesia with my seeing flavors as shapes, and nowhere in the interview did she or anyone else use the term "synesthesia" at all; I didn't ever hear of that as a brain-wiring issue until many years later, probably a decade or two later.

So it's an interesting phenomenon. Thanks to those of you who mentioned Oliver Sachs' book Musicophilia. I've read several of his books, but not that one, so as soon as I post this I'm going to the Anchorage Public Library's website to see whether they have a copy.

I always like it when there are threads on this forum that teach me something I didn't know before. That's why I participate here.

Thanks!


Wade Hampton Miller