The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:26 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

What is a somewhat more reproducible setup for sound is coincident mic'ing. I prefer using spaced pairs though.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:03 AM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
What is a somewhat more reproducible setup for sound is coincident mic'ing. I prefer using spaced pairs though.
Even there, Rick R's experience matches mine. I have a recording I really like that was done with an AEA R88, stereo ribbon. I know where the mic was set, and I have been unable to reproduce the sound I got on that recording with repeated tries, same guitar, same room, same mic position - same mic stand :-)

You can come close, but sometimes things just work, and you can't exactly replicate it.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:11 AM
RRuskin RRuskin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 2,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Even there, Rick R's experience matches mine. I have a recording I really like that was done with an AEA R88, stereo ribbon. I know where the mic was set, and I have been unable to reproduce the sound I got on that recording with repeated tries, same guitar, same room, same mic position - same mic stand :-)

You can come close, but sometimes things just work, and you can't exactly replicate it.
For the record, I have yet to get anything I remotely liked using a classic coincident pair on an acoustic guitar.
__________________
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-22-2011, 03:08 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 2,430
Default Aloha Rick!

Aloha Rick,

Mahalo for sharing your wonderful original songs with us & for those crystal clear acoustic recordings - no matter the gear. Very inspiring! I love the pacing & phrasing of all three songs. It's easy to hear that you love the music & guitar because you seem to tarry on some phrases. I liked that!

RE: Spaced pairs. I have not had as much success with that miking pattern as with others. I'm hoping that I'll get better at it now that my space is much better treated. It's the center balance, imaging & clarity that is the issue for me w/ spaced pairs.

I've had much better luck w/ using my 641's in X-Y about 16" off the 18th fret (12-fret guitars). Sometimes I add a spaced pair of U87's out a few more feet, spaced widely for more room. I've also had some luck with the R84/641 or CK8 ribbon combo's in M-S.

So I am reading here very closely in hopes of picking up some tips on miking in spaced pairs.

BTW, for any mic freak that's inspired by the Microtech-Gefell M295 mics? This Nashville supplier has 'em on special for $1499:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...em2pqq-jBIjHdw

Again Rick, thank you very much for your music.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-22-2011, 07:14 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
So I am reading here very closely in hopes of picking up some tips on miking in spaced pairs.
I imagine it's different for everyone, but I can say that I've used the "mic the 12th fret and mic the lower bout" that you find recommended on the web successfully at times, but it often ends up being sort of unbalanced, which may be what Steve doesn't like. With that setup, I often run into odd things like my ear telling me the sound's louder on one side, while the meters tell me its louder on the other. The ear is all that matters, but that kind of stuff bugs me.

I usually use literally a "spaced pair" these days, mics at the same vertical level, somewhere between 15-20 inches apart, facing dead on or slightly turned in. Centered around the sound hole, more or less. Move side to side in front of that mic lineup until the sound is balanced. I've used with this with the MK41s, the Brauners, and a few others, and it almost always "just works", giving me a nice wide sound with no hole in the middle, in phase, etc. And easy to set up.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-22-2011, 08:05 PM
RRuskin RRuskin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 2,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
....................I usually use literally a "spaced pair" these days, mics at the same vertical level, somewhere between 15-20 inches apart, facing dead on or slightly turned in. Centered around the sound hole, more or less. Move side to side in front of that mic lineup until the sound is balanced. I've used with this with the MK41s, the Brauners, and a few others, and it almost always "just works", giving me a nice wide sound with no hole in the middle, in phase, etc. And easy to set up.
I have the best success with similar arrays & procedures but with different mics.
I have gotten lucky with some "odd" configurations, once or twice with a trio of Sony C37A's and a few others using a Sennheiser MKH 406 in between an out of polarity pair of Sennheiser MKH 405's.
__________________
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-23-2011, 09:22 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I imagine it's different for everyone, but I can say that I've used the "mic the 12th fret and mic the lower bout" that you find recommended on the web successfully at times, but it often ends up being sort of unbalanced, which may be what Steve doesn't like. With that setup, I often run into odd things like my ear telling me the sound's louder on one side, while the meters tell me its louder on the other. The ear is all that matters, but that kind of stuff bugs me.

I usually use literally a "spaced pair" these days, mics at the same vertical level, somewhere between 15-20 inches apart, facing dead on or slightly turned in. Centered around the sound hole, more or less. Move side to side in front of that mic lineup until the sound is balanced. I've used with this with the MK41s, the Brauners, and a few others, and it almost always "just works", giving me a nice wide sound with no hole in the middle, in phase, etc. And easy to set up.
The AB configuration. I experimented with it years ago. I think I'll do that again.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:01 PM
mesa mesa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,156
Default

Steve, are these recording samples still available? I'm getting a *sign into iCloud* when I click on the link.

Last edited by mesa; 07-25-2015 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:21 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,951
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
Steve, are these recording samples still available? I'm getting a *sign into iCloud* when I click on the link.
Those links are broken. I still have the recordings. Let me see if I can repost them for you.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-25-2015, 03:55 PM
mesa mesa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
It'd be interesting to hear the unpanned versions. To me, these don't sound as spacious as I'd want. I never pan tracks, I just adjust the mic position to get the stereo image I want, but of course, whatever works. Panning seems to change a lot as the mics interact, at least when I do it.
Doug, are you doing this just by using headphones?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-25-2015, 04:05 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
Doug, are you doing this just by using headphones?
Wow, old thread :-) You're asking if I setup mics using headphones? I have, but usually I find that doesn't necessarily translate. I usually just go back and forth - try something, check it out over the monitors, move an inch try again, over and over and over. These days, I pretty much know where I'll place the mics, so it goes fast. I also use various meters to watch stereo balance while setting up mics, or even sitting back down at the mics each time, so that lets me fine tune the placement.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-25-2015, 07:20 PM
mesa mesa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Wow, old thread :-) You're asking if I setup mics using headphones? I have, but usually I find that doesn't necessarily translate. I usually just go back and forth - try something, check it out over the monitors, move an inch try again, over and over and over. These days, I pretty much know where I'll place the mics, so it goes fast. I also use various meters to watch stereo balance while setting up mics, or even sitting back down at the mics each time, so that lets me fine tune the placement.
Yes, thanks Doug. Are you still using a spaced pair, 15-20 inches apart east & west of the sound hole?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-25-2015, 10:28 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
Yes, thanks Doug. Are you still using a spaced pair, 15-20 inches apart east & west of the sound hole?
yes, but I usually add an AEA R88 ribbon in MS in the middle. I just have this setup semi-permanently, so I can just sit down, hit record and go.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-16-2015, 10:29 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 1,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Keep in mind that in any individual recording there are numerous variables besides mikes on how things sound. There is some reverb added on all the recordings.

All my Show and Tell posts over the last year and a half were via M295s.

My recordings on Guit Sense (on my website were via M300s)

One of my better M300 recordings, this particular clip came out open and airy (guitar used, song style, etc). Note: also a wav file which makes a bit
difference.
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Rebecca.wav


Couple of M295 recordings:
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Felicity.mp3

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/SustainMe.mp3
Since this thread has been revived I just want to express my gratitude to Derek for demonstrating just how good Gefell M300s can sound when all the ducks are lined up. The performance is really strong and the overall tone is beautiful. It may be unreasonable to ask for info from a what?………..4 year old post but I'd love to know what settings, FX, etc. were used to get such a gorgeous sound.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-16-2015, 12:25 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor B. View Post
Since this thread has been revived I just want to express my gratitude to Derek for demonstrating just how good Gefell M300s can sound when all the ducks are lined up. The performance is really strong and the overall tone is beautiful. It may be unreasonable to ask for info from a what?………..4 year old post but I'd love to know what settings, FX, etc. were used to get such a gorgeous sound.
Thanks Trevor. Some small amount of reverb was used. Don't remember which one, let alone any settings.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above

Last edited by rick-slo; 08-16-2015 at 03:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=