steel string tuning pegs for nylon string guitar

[John Arnold]

Is it to increase the diameter of the roller - so it takes more length of string wound over the roller - while not appreciably increasing weight - nylon is less heavy than steel?

Yes. And nylon is durable enough for nylon strings. As an aside, there were some 1950's and 1960's nylon string tuners with aluminum rollers. Martin classical guitars had them. Solid steel or brass rollers would add significant weight.

Planetary banjo tuners is an interesting idea.

[ac]

I found confirmation that these were Sperzels.

Search for Sperzel on these pages, and on the AGF pages, there is also bit of additional info.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=413438
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=297172
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=454131
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar
http://www.tabrobot.com/rainsong-np1...tar-1472913694

[Quickstep192]

These are the timers that were used on my nylon string guitar. I selected them because the locking know wasn’t as large as some others.

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-ha...iABEgK2UfD_BwE

I considered the Spertzl’s but I thought that fat capstan might look funny and after customizing a set, the cost started to ratchet up.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by ac

From the look of the housing on this Sperzel page, it sure looks like a match for the Rainsong tuners.
http://www.sperzel.com/housing-styles.php

That plus this statement from Sperzel shows they can customize and have made nylon string tuners before.

"Here at Sperzel we offer custom manufacturing services. We have made tuning keys for electric violins, nylon string tuning keys that mount thru the back of the head stock, and our unique design key allows us to produce different length spacers and worm shafts to extend out past contoured shape headstocks.

These are some of the special products we have been asked to produce for custom applications. Our tuning key design makes us more flexible for the custom builder."

It's possible that if they already have the know how and materials, they could produce a set for you also.

Sperzel was making nylon string tuners and may have them available. I worked with them a bit to try and get them to market a banjo tuner, but they didn't feel there would be enough market for them. I made the prototype from their parts and supplied them with the model, but I couldn't convince them to produce and market them.

[dmaynard]

As an aside, Gotoh offers aluminum rollers as an option on Classical tuning machines. I believe they come in black or natural alum.

[Rudy4]

I've also JB Welded aluminum barrel sleeves over regular steel string tuner string posts to increase the diameter and drilled through to intersect the original string hole. Worked fine. The larger barrel diameter not only changes how fast the string winds but it's kinder to synthetic strings that seem to like larger string post diameters.

[ac]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've also JB Welded aluminum barrel sleeves over regular steel string tuner string posts to increase the diameter and drilled through to intersect the original string hole. Worked fine. The larger barrel diameter not only changes how fast the string winds but it's kinder to synthetic strings that seem to like larger string post diameters.

Hmmmm. This seems like a great solution, but depends on the skills of the person doing the modification, I suppose.

I could imagine that several tubing options might be available. Plastics, aluminum, anodized aluminum (blacks, greys, virtually every color possible), carbon fiber tubing, and what not. The top opening of the tube on the post could be completed with a resin to fill and leave a rock hard glossy finish to the post top that I think would look nice.

How did you keep the tubing exactly centered on the post after you epoxied?

I suppose it doesn't have to be flawlessly centered for just winding strings, but to my mind, that would be the trickiest step. If there were too much error, being off-centered would likely become noticeable.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by ac

Hmmmm. This seems like a great solution, but depends on the skills of the person doing the modification, I suppose.

I could imagine that several tubing options might be available. Plastics, aluminum, anodized aluminum (blacks, greys, virtually every color possible), carbon fiber tubing, and what not. The top opening of the tube on the post could be completed with a resin to fill and leave a rock hard glossy finish to the post top that I think would look nice.

How did you keep the tubing exactly centered on the post after you epoxied?

I suppose it doesn't have to be flawlessly centered for just winding strings, but to my mind, that would be the trickiest step. If there were too much error, being off-centered would likely become noticeable.

Here's an example of adding an outer barrel to an existing string post. The photos come from my old website of instrument construction info. The text to accompany the photos is available at the internet archive of the site if you need further details:

http://web.archive.org/web/201604060.../pageUke1.html

[ac]

Wow. Looks fantastic.

Great solution. Don't know yet if it's beyond my skill set, but I love being able to see DIY answers to questions like this.

I'll head over to the link you added for more detail.

Thanks for sharing.

[redir]

That is brilliant!

[ac]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Here's an example of adding an outer barrel to an existing string post. The photos come from my old website of instrument construction info. The text to accompany the photos is available at the internet archive of the site if you need further details:

http://web.archive.org/web/201604060.../pageUke1.html

Looking at the end of the brass sleeve in your photo, it looks like it is a sealed brass ending, not just an open tube ending. Is that true? Or did you fill in the end with something else? [Never mind. I just enlarged your photo and can see the epoxy was smoothed off flush at the end of the tube.]

If it is a sealed brass end, where do you find tubing with a sealed end?

I looked at the link you gave and sadly, no photos there as the website/company is extinct--but text remains. I searched to see if someone had saved the full page somewhere else on the web, but found nothing.

I did find reference to that same web page on a ukulele site. A builder there mentions it and mentions he had been doing the same thing using nylon sleeves for some time before Bluestem. So that would be before 2012, at least. So the idea of converting standard tuners to better suit nylon strings has been around for a while but it's sure difficult to track down the handful of people who have needed/wanted to do it.

https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...t+steel+string

Note: link above has text that refers to photos--but I couldn't see them. Some forums I viewed in the past let only members see photos. I assume that's the case here or the photos are gone for some reason.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by ac

If it is a sealed brass end, where do you find tubing with a sealed end?
.

You could solder a piece of solid brass into the end or --- glue in a pearl or abalone fingerboard dot!

[JonWint]

Seal the end with brass powder and CA glue.

https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Powder-...03614196&psc=1

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by ac

Looking at the end of the brass sleeve in your photo, it looks like it is a sealed brass ending, not just an open tube ending. Is that true? Or did you fill in the end with something else? [Never mind. I just enlarged your photo and can see the epoxy was smoothed off flush at the end of the tube.]

If it is a sealed brass end, where do you find tubing with a sealed end?

I looked at the link you gave and sadly, no photos there as the website/company is extinct--but text remains. I searched to see if someone had saved the full page somewhere else on the web, but found nothing.

I did find reference to that same web page on a ukulele site. A builder there mentions it and mentions he had been doing the same thing using nylon sleeves for some time before Bluestem. So that would be before 2012, at least. So the idea of converting standard tuners to better suit nylon strings has been around for a while but it's sure difficult to track down the handful of people who have needed/wanted to do it.

https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...t+steel+string

Note: link above has text that refers to photos--but I couldn't see them. Some forums I viewed in the past let only members see photos. I assume that's the case here or the photos are gone for some reason.

Hi ac,
The link is the Internet Archive Project's saved version of my old website. If you poked around the other pages for the website you found some pages had photos and some didn't. The photos are archived on the pages that got a lot of hits while lesser used pages didn't get all of the photos archived. It was my own personal website and not a forum. I maintained the website for several years and gave it up because I ran into a situation that the extra income generated from selling instrument construction guides was going to push me over a tax bracket that would effect my retirement investments in a negative manner.

Since the question was about adding the enlargement sleeves to regular steel string posts I did the composite photo to post here. (I have all the source material for the old website, of course)

Hopefully you found the text associated with the photos to be of use.

[ac]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Hi ac,
The link is the Internet Archive Project's saved version of my old website. If you poked around the other pages for the website you found some pages had photos and some didn't. The photos are archived on the pages that got a lot of hits while lesser used pages didn't get all of the photos archived. It was my own personal website and not a forum. I maintained the website for several years and gave it up because I ran into a situation that the extra income generated from selling instrument construction guides was going to push me over a tax bracket that would effect my retirement investments in a negative manner.

Since the question was about adding the enlargement sleeves to regular steel string posts I did the composite photo to post here. (I have all the source material for the old website, of course)

Hopefully you found the text associated with the photos to be of use.

Thank you much for taking the time to put it together and post the photos. That, plus the archive text gives some great guidance for how to go forward, especially for amateurs like myself. I can use all the help I can get. I'm not a builder, I just tinker and modify.

For professionals like the OP, I'm sure they can easily use this information for their own creations without much more help. They have knowledge and experience I lack. But for me, the photos and all the other info is really helpful.

I didn't connect all those instructional videos with you at the time I was web searching, but if I'm not mistaken, there were dozens and dozens of videos you produced on all sorts of topics from guitars to ukes to more. (Hopefully I'm connecting the dots correctly.)

That's a lot of experience and knowledge. I'm sure many were sad to see that you needed to close down your site.

Thank you for sharing this. Since these type of specialized tuners are not in big demand and seem to be pretty much a custom order, your solution opens the door to solve this issue gracefully.