Record acoustic direct in

[lppier]

Just wondering if anyone here records acoustic guitar direct in only?
Do you use magnetic or under saddle? Acoustic IRs?
Do you even get close to a miked tone?
I have been trying but not fully satisfied with the sound.
Thanks!

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by lppier

Just wondering if anyone here records acoustic guitar direct in only?
Do you use magnetic or under saddle? Acoustic IRs?
Do you even get close to a miked tone?
I have been trying but not fully satisfied with the sound.
Thanks!

While you might get something useable, the 2 sources will never sound the same. Microphones react to moving air. Pickups don't.

[Brent Hahn]

I record direct-only with my Baggs M80 (magnetic) all the time. It sounds really good, but the sound is closer to an ES335 or an ES175 than it is to a miked acoustic. And that sound, amplified in the room, influences the way I play. Cowboy strumming would just be weird.

[Doug Young]

Pickups are a compromise meant to let you be heard when playing live. They can't compete with a mic for recording. Your best bet if you really need to record with a pickup is ToneDexter. With some effort you can even simulate stereo micing. But it still won't beat a mic. I'd plug in an electric, but not an acoustic for recording.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Pickups are a compromise meant to let you be heard when playing live. They can't compete with a mic for recording. Your best bet if you really need to record with a pickup is ToneDexter. With some effort you can even simulate stereo micing. But it still won't beat a mic. I'd plug in an electric, but not an acoustic for recording.

Maybe a Tonedexter is your best bet. But please don't think that you can't or shouldn't record because you don't have one. You'll only get better at delivering when the red light is on by doing it all the time.

And I'd be happy to show you examples of pro artists in a live-broadcast setting who got sounds with their non-Tonedexter pickups that anyone... well almost anyone... would find very acceptable.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Maybe a Tonedexter is your best bet. But please don't think that you can't or shouldn't record because you don't have one. You'll only get better at delivering when the red light is on by doing it all the time.

And I'd be happy to show you examples of pro artists in a live-broadcast setting who got sounds with their non-Tonedexter pickups that anyone... well almost anyone... would find very acceptable.

I agree, it depends on the sound you want. For some people the only option is to plug in - too much ambient noise or whatever, so I wouldn't give up if a pickup was all you could do. For others, a plugged in sound is desirable. Could be an electric sound as you describe. Even the quacky piezo sound has been used enough in some pop music that some people actually want it. My assumption was that the OP wanted a natural acoustic sound, which of course is a big assumption. But there are ways to make music without that being the requirement, of course. I actually get a pretty acceptable sound from my setup with an internal mic, tho it only sounds ok if I don't compare it to a real mic'd sound.

BTW, you don't necessarily need ToneDexter if you're recording to get the benefit of that approach. You can apply IRs, like Cuki's or JonFields in your DAW. Could help, again, depending on what sound you want.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lppier

Just wondering if anyone here records acoustic guitar direct in only?
Do you use magnetic or under saddle? Acoustic IRs?
Do you even get close to a miked tone?
I have been trying but not fully satisfied with the sound.
Thanks!

You might consider giving quite a bit more specifics and detail of your recording chain and what you are really after, in order to get better targeted advice.

But in answer to your questions as stated
No I don't record direct in only (I mostly use mic's)
I have/use both, one guitar with an under saddle (Fishman matrix) and I have an old (30-40 years) Bill Lawrence) sound hole magnetic. Both of which I use live, but rarely record with.
And No, the sound is not very close to miked.

[Brent Hahn]

I have ^^^ that same Bill Lawrence, and it's a gem. Very ES175, if you like that sort of thing. They don't turn up very often, but keep an eye out.

[Gordon Currie]

I record direct all the time, but strictly for demo purposes only.

My pickups are all SBT: Dazzo, Schatten HFN, K+K. UST are ghastly when recorded, as their increased 'quack' seems even more prominent and annoying in a recording.

I use a ToneDexter with wavemaps (IR) for each guitar. This helps to restore a lot of the microphone quality.

I can sit down and be recording in about two minutes.

For capturing ideas and trying out arrangement ideas, I don't require a miked sound. I require speed of setup.

The result is FAR better than a raw pickup, and FAR quicker to get to recording.

Would I use this to record material for commercial release? Absolutely not. Even a simple microphone setup is still superior in my experience.

But for anyone looking to get ideas and performances recorded quickly, and who don't have the necessary equipment/room/experience, the world of piezo pickup + IR truly opens things up so your 'quick and dirty' recording no longer sounds so 'dirty.'

[Doug Young]

I went thru an exercise years ago where I tried 15 different ways to record with a pickup. I can't seem to find the original thread, but sound clips are here in a playlist:

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/se...-a-pickup-demo

Spoiler: None were all that successful, but maybe you'll get some ideas.

These were all before ToneDexter, and before the Baggs' Session DI, which was their attempt to put Nashville recording engineers' pickup processing in a box.

If you posted what you're getting, it would give people a better idea of your musical style and maybe what kind of sound you're shooting for.

Here's a more recent example of the sound I get direct out of my pedal board these days. Like Gordon's points, it seems good enough for a demo or to capture ideas without being overly distracted by the pickup sound. Not good enough to release as a recording, tho. Just a Dazzo+mic thru my pedal board.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by lppier

Just wondering if anyone here records acoustic guitar direct in only?
Do you use magnetic or under saddle? Acoustic IRs?
Do you even get close to a miked tone?
I have been trying but not fully satisfied with the sound.
Thanks!

Hi lppier

You answered it for yourself - you have not been fully satisfied with the sound.

My take is NO, my direct sound cannot touch the quality of my microphones.

And I have great pickup rigs (with an internal mic), really solid preamps. All my main guitars have K&K dual sources and I use either a Raven PMB or DTAR Solstice with them. I have recorded direct, but only under duress, when recording with someone else who wanted me to.

If it's me recording for myself, I'm going to use microphones, in a decent environment.

It might have been Doug Young who said something about the best pickup recorded direct will not compete with the cheapest condenser mic. Whomever it was…I agree.

[EZYPIKINS]

Did a solo recording one night 2:00 AM - 4:00 AM. All direct with under saddle pickup Dean DAO Exotica acoustic. Two finger style rhythm tracks R&L, with a Santana style lead floating over the top. I love how it came out. But couldn't stand the piezo sound. Thought I'd never be able to use it on a project. After sitting on it for a while. I would listen to it now and then. Tried recreating with a mic on my J-185. Never could get it to feel the same. The Dean is the guitar I would take to live bar gigs. Places I didn't want to bring a more expensive guitar. So.... I decided to make a live recording out of it. Got some prerecorded wind blowing, and what sounded like people gathering at a small club. Complete with conversations over the top of one another. Glasses clinking, people laughing. Mixed it to sound like the beginning of an outdoor set. Now the piezo doesn't bother me at all. It is track one on my last CD.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I have ^^^ that same Bill Lawrence, and it's a gem. Very ES175, if you like that sort of thing. They don't turn up very often, but keep an eye out.

Yes I am trying to remember when I got it but can't . I believe it was in mid to late 70's or early 80's. As you can see it simply says "Lawerence". I think it is an FT-145 but the only ones I seem to find on Google are newer ones which look similar but say "Bill Lawerence"

In any case here it is and I agree, it is actually a pretty nice pick up and was relatively inexpensive I used it in my all acoustics live until I finally got one with a factory installed Under saddle, I do still use it in my 12 string.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by KevWind

it is actually a pretty nice pick up and was relatively inexpensive I used it in my all acoustics live until I finally got one with a factory installed Under saddle

That makes two of us! I still have mine in a drawer with other odds and ends. Haven't actually used it in decades(!).

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by lppier

Just wondering if anyone here records acoustic guitar direct in only?
Do you use magnetic or under saddle? Acoustic IRs?
Do you even get close to a miked tone?
I have been trying but not fully satisfied with the sound.
Thanks!

If you're looking for the sound one gets from a mic'ed acoustic guitar, a microphone is the way to get there. It doesn't have to be a high end, expensive microphone either. Properly placed (classic first position to try: aimed at where the neck meets the body or even a bit more toward the 12th fret, about a foot away) even something as old-school as Shure SM57 can sound more like an acoustic guitar played acoustically than most pickup systems.

Close micing can help isolate room sound, or give greater separation from other instruments playing at the same time. Some microphones have a proximity effect if you put them too close, which boosts low frequencies, and that's not usually desirable with acoustic guitar. And of course if you get too close you might bump the mic of have it get in the way of some playing techniques.

An inexpensive choice that I use for a lot of quick overdubs in a small, untreated space is the iRig Acoustic Stage. It's a tiny microphone that clips into the soundhole and connects to a cigarette pack sized preamp that you can then connect to a line in on your recording interface. Its sounds pretty good, is easy to move around and use with more than one guitar, and doesn't pickup much room sound. However it is a microphone and it will pickup mic bleed from vocals, or louder sounds in a room. If you're just trying to get a decent sounds like a mic'ed guitar on recordings made in a non-recording studio environment, the iRig Acoustic Stage is well worth a try.

Acoustic guitar magnetic pickups, like unto those used in electric guitars, are another old school sound that is still valid if underused. Some upthread have already noted this. No, they don't sound like your acoustic guitar being played acoustically, but they can sound very nice in their own way.