The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:22 PM
WilsonMic7 WilsonMic7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 74
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM View Post
I agree with your point.

However in relation to this conversation in which it was intended if a musician were to put out a less than polished CD and someone heard it, liked it, but noticed the mistakes then years later saw a CD by the same artist for sale I think the odds of them buying the new product would be more likely than if the situation were the same but using guitars rather than CD's. Of course this is mainly due to the extreme price difference. It's eaiser to get a second chance when someone is spending $12. Not so easy when it's thousands.

Oh and thanks for the nice words. Much appreciated.
Price difference! Of course! I totally should have included that. Thank you for completing the point.

By the way, where are you in Oklahoma? I was in Tulsa for 5 years until just recently.
__________________
"I'm just a nobody, trying to tell everybody about Somebody that can save anybody."

Guitars
Martin ALternative X
Taylor 914ce-L7 Brazilian Rosewood 1 11/16" nut
Taylor Big Baby
Taylor T5 Custom Quilted Maple BlueBurst
Taylor 354ce
Martin DC-Aura
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-13-2010, 05:05 PM
Rod True Rod True is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Abbotsford, BC
Posts: 423
Default

The term "Out There" has been used a fare bit in this thread (and other similar threads).

Out there can have many different locations, destinations, quality of player, living rooms, kitchens stages or studios.

I think a something to consider is what "out there" means for your early guitars. All of my guitars are within 4 hour driving distance from me, with most of them within 1/2 hour driving distance. None of them are used by professional musicians, none are use for much more than the living room for personal use or the odd church service.

I'm confident in my quality to let them get "out there" as far as they are.

the next 4 guitars also fall into the 1/2 hour drive or less, living room, odd church service or maybe coffee shop gig.

I guess knowing what "out there" means is important in knowing when to well, get out there.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:25 PM
Ehvamone Ehvamone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 127
Default

JohnM
It is a delicate balance, isn't it? At some point the work must be presented to the public, but too soon and a negative image may be out there, too late and one may never get their work "out there" in a never-ending search for perfection.
Its actually a place I am now. After being so embarrassed by my initial projects (most of which were not mine) I've spent years in the woodshed trying to cobble together my next venture, and nothing ever seams good enough.

Lots I never thought about in this thread!

All I can say is, if any luthiers want to send me all those initial prototype guitars I swear I will keep them safely locked away from public eyes!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-14-2010, 02:22 AM
cpabolting cpabolting is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,987
Default

The market will ultimately decided if you are ready... there is no magic formula or number... you do your thing and don't worry about numbers, worry about being the very best you can at what you do. Ask a lot of questions, never be afraid to ask, and be accepting of the mistakes you will make along the way. It happens to everyone! The most successful learn from their mistakes. Good luck.
__________________
A brand new duet I wrote with my daughter:
https://youtu.be/u0hRB7fYaZU

Olson Brazilian Dread #1325
Olson Brazilian SJ #1350
Olson Tiger Myrtle Dread #1355
Olson Brazilian Jumbo #1351
Olson 12-string Jumbo (one of only a few)
Martin D-42 Johnny Cash #51/200 (only 80 made)
And a few others

Quite a few limited edition and rare Martins
-----------------

http://www.kekomusic.com
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-14-2010, 04:04 AM
Kitchen Guitars's Avatar
Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
Formerly Yamaha Junkie
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South West Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. True View Post
The term "Out There" has been used a fare bit in this thread (and other similar threads).

Out there can have many different locations, destinations, quality of player, living rooms, kitchens stages or studios.

I think a something to consider is what "out there" means for your early guitars. All of my guitars are within 4 hour driving distance from me, with most of them within 1/2 hour driving distance. None of them are used by professional musicians, none are use for much more than the living room for personal use or the odd church service.

I'm confident in my quality to let them get "out there" as far as they are.

the next 4 guitars also fall into the 1/2 hour drive or less, living room, odd church service or maybe coffee shop gig.

I guess knowing what "out there" means is important in knowing when to well, get out there.
I was just asked for my base price from an AGF'er that lives in Hawaii (I am in SW Pennsylvania) I declined simply because there was no way for me to service the guitar economically and being it would be my 4th the likely hood of it needing some after the build tweaking was too high an odd for me.
I hear all and some great advise. I wish I was rich like some of you fellas building that I could give away my first 20 or 80. I can't. I am in biz. But I will tread as wisely as I can. I'll get a few more under my belt before I go Global.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-14-2010, 09:37 AM
SteveS's Avatar
SteveS SteveS is offline
Me
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Monument, Colorado
Posts: 9,122
Default

Listening to those who have gone before you is the best way to procede.
To ask for wisdom from those who have gone before shows good judgement. To head those instruction shows wisdom.
Good for you for asking.
Now you have your choice to make.
What will it be?

Quote:
Wisdom's Call
Proverbs 8

1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:
4 "To you, O men, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
6 Listen, for I have worthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Proverbs 13
20 He who walks with the wise grows wise
__________________
“Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.”
― G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-16-2010, 06:19 PM
Brock Poling Brock Poling is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,377
Default

I was having this discussion some years ago with a very famous pro from the archtop world (not going to say who), and he went on and on how you should build around 25 guitars or so before you sell one, that in the long run they will hurt your name and reputation, and was really making a good case for his arguments.

Then I asked him. How did you get started in the business and he told me he has sold every one from #2 on. I found that amusing.

In the end I think he is right, you should wait until you have a number of them under your belt before you start selling, but it has less to do with the fact that you are building guitars worth buying and more about you are still trying to find your voice and style. After you find it you will look at those early guitars and wish you could get them back ... no matter how good they are.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-16-2010, 06:31 PM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 4,327
Default

I asked earlier in the thread what you builders did with those first 25 prototypes you decided not to sell. No takers?

Why not do what some famous writers did? Use a pseudonym. Call your first 20 or so "White Label Guitar," sell them, and then put your name on the later models once you've found your voice and build chops.
__________________

gits: good and plenty
chops: snickers
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-17-2010, 01:35 AM
harvl harvl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitnoob View Post
I asked earlier in the thread what you builders did with those first 25 prototypes you decided not to sell. No takers?

Why not do what some famous writers did? Use a pseudonym. Call your first 20 or so "White Label Guitar," sell them, and then put your name on the later models once you've found your voice and build chops.
I gave most of them that survived away to friends and relatives, even a couple to the local public radio auction... Some that were purely experimental I still have, for instance I still have the original Voyage Air, it's crude to look at but it worked on the first try so I've kept it, never know it might be worth something someday! Of course I'd built a couple hundred guitars before Voyage Air...
Outside of #1 the oldest I have is #32 which has about 50 signatures of famous pickers on it.

Harv
__________________
Harvey Leach
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-17-2010, 01:56 AM
skyver skyver is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 867
Default

If I played it and liked it, I'd buy it whether it was number 2 or 2002.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-17-2010, 09:33 AM
cpabolting cpabolting is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,987
Default

I think it is unrealistic is this economic climate to suggest anyone pile up the first 10-20 guitars they make. You build a guitar and play it. And if it sounds good, and you have a buyer, you sell it. I can assure you there is a great relationship between price and quality of the instrtument. Too high, and you won't sell any which should tell you that you have the wrong price for the quality you delivered. And you move along like that. I can assure you someone is not going to beat you down in 10 years with #7 saying how did you make such an inferior guitar to your current one. And if they show up, you tell them that I will give you credit in the amount of the original sale price you sold it for towards a guitar at least 200% of the original sale price and have that be that. Otherwise, you can honestly say it was one of my earlier works when I was still poor and learning.

Go for it. If it is not worth what you are asking, people won't buy it.
__________________
A brand new duet I wrote with my daughter:
https://youtu.be/u0hRB7fYaZU

Olson Brazilian Dread #1325
Olson Brazilian SJ #1350
Olson Tiger Myrtle Dread #1355
Olson Brazilian Jumbo #1351
Olson 12-string Jumbo (one of only a few)
Martin D-42 Johnny Cash #51/200 (only 80 made)
And a few others

Quite a few limited edition and rare Martins
-----------------

http://www.kekomusic.com
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Racman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As everyone has already stated - it's a simple case of supply and demand. Trying to "pin" a number to it is futile. Even if you made the worst acoustics on the planet (which I doubt is the case) and there was a demand at that particular price point - then you've succeeded!!

Of course if you add artistic integrity, creative satisfaction and the pursuit of your own minimum reference point of quality and craftsmanship that's a different ball game altogether.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-17-2010, 10:01 AM
SMan SMan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Latte Land
Posts: 3,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyver View Post
If I played it and liked it, I'd buy it whether it was number 2 or 2002.
Me too.....
__________________
Steve

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-18-2010, 02:57 PM
JamesO JamesO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyver View Post
If I played it and liked it, I'd buy it whether it was number 2 or 2002.
But would I like it?

I've finished one acoustic to date, but started and failed at many before it; I've built, I think, 5 amps, all a bit different; a number of electrics; three drum kits; and a few really nice snare drums. I'll consider making one for a close friend when parts of the guitar don't embarrass me

I'm finishing #2 now. There's definite progress made, but still a lot to learn, improve, and PRACTICE!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-18-2010, 05:53 PM
Haans Haans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Minneapolis, Mn.
Posts: 1,014
Default

I have sent 276 mandolins out the door with S/N's, and a few that never made it. If I don't like it, it doesn't go.
For guitars, I stopped numbering them. If I don't like them, they don't go either.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=