Guitars with auto-tuning system?

[agfsteve]

I hardly ever explore alternate tunings beyond Drop-D, but I put my telecaster in open D and fumbled and stumbled on a lovely little fingerpicking pattern that I have no idea what the chords would be, but it made me yearn for an easier way to explore this alternate universe.

So I thought I'd look for a guitar with one of those auto-tuning systems that allow you to select various alternate tunings at the push of a button. I thought there would be a few new or used variations knocking around, but the only guitar I can find is the Epiphone FT350SCE, which has the Min-ETune system.

Does anyone know of any other guitars with auto-tuning?

I only recall hearing bad things about auto-tuning systems, so I would want to keep this on the cheaper side (used Epiphone FT350SCE is good, at around $250-$350), just for easing into alternate tunings. I can image whatever I get to be used just to explore multiple ideas quickly, then when I have an idea solidified I would put a "better" guitar into the specific tuning and continue.

...Actually, I don't have a better guitar--price-wise--than the Epiphone, LOL.

[David Eastwood]

With a decent electronic tuner, changing from standard to any of the common open tunings really shouldn't be that hard.

I think you'd be far better off perfecting how to retune your existing guitar(s) than to place your faith in a dubious electro-mechanical system, possibly (or probably) attached to a guitar you might not care to play.

Once you have lived with a given open tuning for a while to get used to its possibilities, you might consider the investment in another instrument to keep in that tuning reasonable.

[endpin]

I think the rap on auto-tuning systems is more that they are "not traditional" rather than they don't work as advertised.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by endpin

I think the rap on auto-tuning systems is more that they are "not traditional" rather than they don't work as advertised.

No, apparently they don't work all that well, either.

One of the problems you're going to get is that there are limitations to the ability of the strings to be brought to different tunings accurately and repeatedly. These are problems that just have to do with the stresses and metal fatigue that the strings undergo.

That's something I found out when I equipped an instrument with those Keith banjo tuners that can be preset between two notes so you can instantly go from one tuning to another: one or the other of the strings would always be slightly out of tune. Sometimes all of them would be.

Now, I know that these automatic tuners are supposed to be self-correcting, but evidently they don't function as flawlessly as intended. They didn't seem to attract too many fans when Gibson tried to equip their entire electric guitar product line with them, either.

When some new musical instrument product promoted as an innovation is a genuine innovation, like the Floyd Rose tremolo, not only does it convert a large fan base but it also inspires imitations and patent violations from competing companies trying to cash in on it. That hasn't happened with self-tuning guitar tuners.

Which should speak for itself. The way I interpret it is that the technology hasn't yet caught up with the claims being made on its behalf, and given the material limitations of these thin metal wires we call guitar strings, it might be quite some time before it does.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[AZLiberty]

A friend of mine has those robot tuners on one of his Taylors.

Tuners cost several hundred bucks. They work, and work well. But they are pricey. Now my friend brings one guitar to a gig instead of 3. (he plays open G and open C as well as standard). Personally, I'll bring the spare guitar.

Also, as Wade correctly points out, multiple retuning across multiple tunings kills string life.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by endpin

I think the rap on auto-tuning systems is more that they are "not traditional" rather than they don't work as advertised.

Sorry....... think again. Which one have you tried that works well? Then there's the - if they worked well, or properly, everyone would have it as an option.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by endpin

I think the rap on auto-tuning systems is more that they are "not traditional" rather than they don't work as advertised.

The only one I've personal experience with is Line 6's Variax technology, which was a digital auto-tune mechanism. It worked brilliantly well, with two major caveats:

1) because the physical strings were still at their original pitch, you had to be playing loud enough that the digital retuning obscured the volume of the actual strings. In practice, easy to do when playing electric guitar, but near-impossible in an acoustic setting
2) you had to be in tune to start with. A slightly off E would be an equally slightly off digital D.

[agfsteve]

Thanks for the responses so far, which seem to reflect the general public consensus.

The problem for me is that I don't think I will ever get into alternate tunings without a little help like auto-tuning. I only ever play alone (no band, no jamming, no open mics, etc.), so I have no other person or reason pushing me or needing me to try, but if I did learn alternate tunings then I think it would provide more variety, so rather than playing the guitar for half an hour and putting it down through boredom, I could just try a different sound--it would be like having more TV channels (bad analogy).

So I can imagine, in a couple of years, saying (to my cat, whilst hiking up my pants for self-assurance), "yep, that min-etune guitar there is a piece of crap, but it got me into alternate tunings".

Plus, later on, knowing that I can already play in alternate tunings helps to justify getting one more guitar for each tuning!

[TBman]

The proper AGF way to do multiple tunings is to have a guitar for each tuning. I think its in the fine print when you joined....

[The Growler]

Barry is right of course, but there are ways to potentially make tuning to different turnings easier for you.

Check out tuners like the Petersen Strobe tuners that you tell what tuning you want and they help you get there. You can set it to DADGAD and it will tell you when you tune the strings to DADGAD. Now, you don't have to keep in mind what you are tuning to. Want to go to Open D? Select Open D on the tuner and tune up.

Look into those and see if that wouldn't help. Worse case, you have a great tuner.

[Earl49]

Like any other guitar skill, you better at switching tunings with.....practice.

David Wilcox, who plays each song in a different tuning, has learned to count the turns of the peg to get close, then fine tunes during the banter between songs. I group my set to minimize changes between songs, changing one or two strings at a time instead of all six. Or use a spare guitar for those that require big differentials.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by The Growler

Barry is right of course, but there are ways to potentially make tuning to different turnings easier for you.

Check out tuners like the Petersen Strobe tuners that you tell what tuning you want and they help you get there. You can set it to DADGAD and it will tell you when you tune the strings to DADGAD. Now, you don't have to keep in mind what you are tuning to. Want to go to Open D? Select Open D on the tuner and tune up.

Look into those and see if that wouldn't help. Worse case, you have a great tuner.

Sounds great, but I went and looked at several videos of the Peterson StroboClip HD, and read a thread or two on it on the AGF, but I could not find anything that showed how it works in terms of the user not needing to know the actual notes, which I think is what you're saying.

E.g., if I wanted to re-tune from standard to open G (D G D G B D, which I had to google), then how does the StroboClip do that? Presumably it assumes you are starting on your sixth string, so it knows what the "target" note is (D), and shows "D" instead of showing the current note (E), and presumably shows you that you need to tune down to D, then presumably automatically goes to the next (fifth) string (anticipating you will pluck the fifth string), and repeats the same process, except going from A to G, etc?

[EverettWilliams]

Look at it this way — it’s more stuff to break. The nature of the automation economy is that things that were not functionally obsolescent before will become so now and they can get you to buy more crap that you don’t need. I like gizmos on my car because I get a new one every two or three years and anything that goes wrong is covered by warranty. But a guitar — why should I ever plan to replace tuners? I’ve got a guitar that’s over 130 years old that still has the same tuners. Guitars, and tuning them, is simple, why do you need to automate?

[Wade Hampton]

Steve, whether you invest in automatic robo-tuners or learn how to do it manually, one requirement to make this whole experiment work properly is going to be that you keep your strings fresh enough so that they will accurately go to the pitches where you want them to go without a lot of diddling around to try to niggle and wiggle them precisely in tune.

Back when I was gigging in bars all the time I used to have a couple of arrangements where, like Earl Scruggs in his composition “Flint Hills Special,” I changed tunings during the piece itself. I did that strictly by ear, clamp-on electronic tuners not having been invented yet. Once you get used to hearing perfect fourth and perfect fifth intervals being played, it’s not hard to do.

But it would have been basically impossible to pull off with old, dead or even half-dead strings - the strings have to be fairly fresh for that to work. So don’t expect to be able to leave a set of strings on a guitar for a month while you’re repeatedly yanking and cranking them into various different tunings. You’ll be more likely to get a week out of them, if that.

Yes, you can leave them on longer than that and have them sort of work: I have no doubt that someone is reading these words in mounting indignation and thinking: “Why, I change tunings on my guitar at least 27 times a day, and those strings have been on there since the TAFT administration!!”

Well, maybe so. But that ain’t optimal. Once the strings start to wear they’ll be harder and harder to get into perfect tune. So change them frequently if you want to get the most out of your strings and your guitar, both.

Using coated strings like Elixirs or Cleartones won’t help much in that situation, because when you retune a lot it’s the metal fatigue that kills the strings, not corrosion. So you’ll kill coated strings just about as fast as uncoated strings when you change tunings a lot.

So be aware of that going in.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Steve, whether you invest in automatic robo-tuners or learn how to do it manually, one requirement to make this whole experiment work properly is going to be that you keep your strings fresh enough so that they will accurately go to the pitches where you want them to go without a lot of diddling around to try to niggle and wiggle them precisely in tune.

Back when I was gigging in bars all the time I used to have a couple of arrangements where, like Earl Scruggs in his composition “Flint Hills Special,” I changed tunings during the piece itself. I did that strictly by ear, clamp-on electronic tuners not having been invented yet. Once you get used to hearing perfect fourth and perfect fifth intervals being played, it’s not hard to do.

But it would have been basically impossible to pull off with old, dead or even half-dead strings - the strings have to be fairly fresh for that to work. So don’t expect to be able to leave a set of strings on a guitar for a month while you’re repeatedly yanking and cranking them into various different tunings. You’ll be more likely to get a week out of them, if that.

Yes, you can leave them on longer than that and have them sort of work: I have no doubt that someone is reading these words in mounting indignation and thinking: “Why, I change tunings on my guitar at least 27 times a day, and those strings have been on there since the TAFT administration!!”

Well, maybe so. But that ain’t optimal. Once the strings start to wear they’ll be harder and harder to get into perfect tune. So change them frequently if you want to get the most out of your strings and your guitar, both.

Using coated strings like Elixirs or Cleartones won’t help much in that situation, because when you retune a lot it’s the metal fatigue that kills the strings, not corrosion. So you’ll kill coated strings just about as fast as uncoated strings when you change tunings a lot.

So be aware of that going in.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

So what you're saying is that changing tunings on a guitar frequently makes the strings have a much shorter life. So this means that using one guitar, regardless of whether it is an auto-tuning guitar, or is manually tuned, will go through strings much more quickly than having different guitars for different tunings.

And therefore, by logical extension, having multiple guitars saves money through not having to buy as many strings!

Thanks, this is enlightening!