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  #31  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:20 AM
mcduffnw mcduffnw is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeo828 View Post
HI

I recently purchased an Eastman E10000ss/V Which is there take on a Gibson L-00, with the tiger stripe pickguard etc.

It has Antique Varnish, Solid Adirondack Spruce Top, Solid Mahogany Back/Sides, Rosewood Fingerboard, Ebony Bridge/Bridge Pins, Bone Nut/Saddle, Antique Nickel Tuners.

I like the thing.

But a friend of mine said that he would never pay $1000 for a guitar made in China.

But in my opinion I see it as a guitar that is well made, all solid wood etc....
You are paying for a high quality guitar that happens to be made in China. Not a cheap stratocaster made in China, made to be affordable and cheap.

That's my take on it. It's the quality, not where it is made.

Your friend is not right...but...he's not wrong either...he's just "not wrong" in a different way.

Eastman's are really fantastic looking, playing, and sounding guitars...exceptionally well made, and very much handcrafted, very old school Martin style from circa the 50's and 60's...at least the the way the videos of their shop tours appear to show. They also use absolutely top notch woods and other materials as well.

So...they are certainly worth the money, and your guitar is certainly worth the 1K price to that extent.

But...here is where your friend is right...but he doesn't know it.

The Gibson L-00 was a cheap guitar, a basic low end, budget level guitar. Have you ever seen an actual vintage one from the 30's or 40's...their heyday? They used lower grade woods on those, by far, than what Eastman is using on their/your L-00 model, and Eastman's construction craftsmanship is miles and miles ahead of the caliber of work that Gibson did on those old L-00's.

Gibson built those cheap, fast, and dirty. Lower grade woods, bracing rough cut off of a saw and just glued...with a slop of glue...straight on the guitar...no shaping, no sanding, no cleaning it up...just cut and stick. And Gibson carried that caliber of craftsmanship...if you could really call it that...debateable...on throughout the every facet of building that model.

But, that was kinda the point to that guitar...it was a "cheap, fast, and dirty" budget guitar. It sold, in the 30's and 40's for around 30.00 to 40.00. I think in the 30's the list price was like $27.00 or $28.00, just a basic instrument that was affordable for folks who wanted a Gibson guitar, but did not have the money...remember...30's and 40's...to buy a nicer, higher end instrument.

They were Gibson's "Cheapo" all around, but, they played well, held up well...in spite of their build/material quality...and have that certain sound that only those old L-00's can really create.

So...Eastman making an L-00 style model that sells for 1K is sort of a polar opposite to what the actual original guitar from Gibson was all about.

But...for all that extra money...you are certainly getting a much higher quality version than the original, to be sure.

duff
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  #32  
Old 03-12-2019, 07:37 AM
Zeo828 Zeo828 is offline
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Originally Posted by mcduffnw View Post
Your friend is not right...but...he's not wrong either...he's just "not wrong" in a different way.

Eastman's are really fantastic looking, playing, and sounding guitars...exceptionally well made, and very much handcrafted, very old school Martin style from circa the 50's and 60's...at least the the way the videos of their shop tours appear to show. They also use absolutely top notch woods and other materials as well.

So...they are certainly worth the money, and your guitar is certainly worth the 1K price to that extent.

But...here is where your friend is right...but he doesn't know it.

The Gibson L-00 was a cheap guitar, a basic low end, budget level guitar. Have you ever seen an actual vintage one from the 30's or 40's...their heyday? They used lower grade woods on those, by far, than what Eastman is using on their/your L-00 model, and Eastman's construction craftsmanship is miles and miles ahead of the caliber of work that Gibson did on those old L-00's.

Gibson built those cheap, fast, and dirty. Lower grade woods, bracing rough cut off of a saw and just glued...with a slop of glue...straight on the guitar...no shaping, no sanding, no cleaning it up...just cut and stick. And Gibson carried that caliber of craftsmanship...if you could really call it that...debateable...on throughout the every facet of building that model.

But, that was kinda the point to that guitar...it was a "cheap, fast, and dirty" budget guitar. It sold, in the 30's and 40's for around 30.00 to 40.00. I think in the 30's the list price was like $27.00 or $28.00, just a basic instrument that was affordable for folks who wanted a Gibson guitar, but did not have the money...remember...30's and 40's...to buy a nicer, higher end instrument.

They were Gibson's "Cheapo" all around, but, they played well, held up well...in spite of their build/material quality...and have that certain sound that only those old L-00's can really create.

So...Eastman making an L-00 style model that sells for 1K is sort of a polar opposite to what the actual original guitar from Gibson was all about.

But...for all that extra money...you are certainly getting a much higher quality version than the original, to be sure.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Wow I didn't see it that way. I know that the L-00 were budget guitars in those days but I still thought that they were amazingly made. And yeah I'm not sure that they used the same quality of woods or time to make them. So I see your point!
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:02 AM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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No debate. He simply stated his opinion on the matter. Most of the other commentary herein revolves around "I don't like Eastman because...." followed by "but MY Eastman ...." - completely pointless. The "my dog is better than your dog" goes nowhere. Just play what you like.
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  #34  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:16 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Hi, I'm afraid that the "friend" is revealing a certain type of bias.
With just one Exception, all my instruments are made abroad.

One comes from China (Eastman archtop) one comes from the Czech Republic (my mandolin) and most come from the USA.

So, all foreign made.
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  #35  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:17 AM
Archsas Archsas is offline
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Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan View Post
No debate. He simply stated his opinion on the matter. Most of the other commentary herein revolves around "I don't like Eastman because...." followed by "but MY Eastman ...." - completely pointless. The "my dog is better than your dog" goes nowhere. Just play what you like.
I don't know, I think there's more to the discussion than that. Zeo's friend isn't just saying that he wouldn't buy an Eastman because he doesn't like the sound/prefers something else/etc., he seems to be saying that the Zeo's purchase inherently wasn't worth making because instruments made in China aren't worth what he paid for it, presumably because they're not high enough quality. To me, that's more than a simple difference of opinion, it's a statement about the ability of a company to produce a quality instrument based on their geographical location, and that's definitely worthy of some meaningful discussion.

I'm in the camp of the friend being flat-out wrong, due to uninformed bias. And that's not just because I own and enjoy an Eastman. I just don't think it's possible to make broad generalizations like that about what an instrument is "worth" or its quality based on where it was made. People anywhere are capable of producing a fine instrument as long as the workers/luthiers are trained and (perhaps more importantly) there's a market for the product. Remember, Japanese guitars also used to be thought of as cheap junk, and opinion has gradually caught up to reality as quality went up; that is, except for people who still can't get over the non-American bias and wouldn't play a Yairi or L-series Yamaha, as was discussed a week or so ago in a Yamaha thread. I also hear lots of good things about Faith guitars, despite Indonesia's reputation for making some of the cheapest Fender and Squier models. Guitar making is a skill, it's not something that's reliant on geography.

Last edited by Archsas; 03-12-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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  #36  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:30 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeo828 View Post
But a friend of mine said that he would never pay $1000 for a guitar made in China.
He's not alone, many have such ignorant opinions. I own a Martin D18GE, a custom Martin OM-18, a Breedlove Roots OM, among others. And an Eastman AC420B. Love 'em all, but guess which one is my go-to guitar ... It really is THAT good.

The Chinese have been making acoustic stringed instruments since the beginning of time. They kinda know how to do it.
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  #37  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Archsas View Post
... he seems to be saying that the Zeo's purchase inherently wasn't worth making because instruments made in China aren't worth what he paid for it, presumably because they're not high enough quality....

I'm in the camp of the friend being flat-out wrong. And that's not just because I own and enjoy an Eastman. I just don't think it's possible to make broad generalizations like that about what an instrument is "worth" or its quality based on where it was made. .....
And you're allowed your opinion as well - even though it is made from complete supposition (see highlighted words, yours not mine). It is all completely pointless because - it doesn't matter. If I think Mercedes is complete German manufactured junk (I do not), it matters not what anyone else's opinion of that product is. This isn't a "help me decide what to buy, I like Eastman guitars and my friend says their junk." This is a, my friend says my Eastman is Asian junk....(paraphrased) so no amount of bashing or supporting is going to impress or change the "friend's" thoughts. Or change Zeo's appreciation or enjoyment of his/her instrument.
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  #38  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:39 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Same old, same old.
The preponderance of comments are very favorable to Eastman. Others say "buy what you want regardless." That's cool.
Lastly a handful of negatives based on guitars made ten years ago or more.
Negative remarks about bad experiences can be made about any brand including custom builds by independent luthiers.
I won't do that... serves no purpose and doesn't reflect well on me. YMMV.
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:44 AM
Archsas Archsas is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
And you're allowed your opinion as well - even though it is made from complete supposition (see highlighted words, yours not mine). It is all completely pointless because - it doesn't matter. If I think Mercedes is complete German manufactured junk (I do not), it matters not what anyone else's opinion of that product is. This isn't a "help me decide what to buy, I like Eastman guitars and my friend says their junk." This is a, my friend says my Eastman is Asian junk....(paraphrased) so no amount of bashing or supporting is going to impress or change the "friend's" thoughts. Or change Zeo's appreciation or enjoyment of his/her instrument.
I think we're seeing the purpose of this discussion differently. I'm not really approaching this as a question of whether Eastmans (or any other Chinese manufacturer) are good or not, I'm thinking about this as more about bias, where that comes from and how to approach it. In other words not "is Eastman a good brand," but "why do some people still think a Chinese-made guitar can't be high quality, despite evidence saying that's not the case." Something that also probably isn't going to go anywhere, but a different and meaningful conversation nonetheless.
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  #40  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:50 AM
Zeo828 Zeo828 is offline
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At the end of the day I don't care what my friend says. But I bring it up because honestly this is not the first time I purchased a foreign made guitar for over $500 and got some criticism.

In about 2008 I bought an EASTWOOD electric guitar for $800 new. It was a cool guitar. It was a copy of an old Airline guitar. But made better. I took it to this small guitar shop by my home, at the time, and the guitar teacher there played it. He was shocked when I told him how much I payed for the Korean made guitar. It was almost like his brain didn't think you should buy an asian made guitar at that price. Even though it was high quality. I remember him saying "for an imported guitar?"

And I feel the same way now with my friend. As if " no way, for that money i could buy..... (this or that American guitar.)

And I will tell you, I believe that these instruments will hold their value. There will be people who look at their build and materials and buy it. Nothing like an all solid acoustic.

Let's face it, you will be hard pressed to find an all solid acoustic under $800, no matter where it is made. Maybe a Fender PM. But it's slim pickings.
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  #41  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:50 AM
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Tell us what your friend has. We can arm you with enough one liners about his gear to send him scurrying.
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  #42  
Old 03-12-2019, 09:05 AM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
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Originally Posted by Archsas View Post
I don't know, I think there's more to the discussion than that. Zeo's friend isn't just saying that he wouldn't buy an Eastman because he doesn't like the sound/prefers something else/etc., he seems to be saying that the Zeo's purchase inherently wasn't worth making because instruments made in China aren't worth what he paid for it, presumably because they're not high enough quality. To me, that's more than a simple difference of opinion, it's a statement about the ability of a company to produce a quality instrument based on their geographical location, and that's definitely worthy of some meaningful discussion.

I'm in the camp of the friend being flat-out wrong, due to uninformed bias. And that's not just because I own and enjoy an Eastman. I just don't think it's possible to make broad generalizations like that about what an instrument is "worth" or its quality based on where it was made. People anywhere are capable of producing a fine instrument as long as the workers/luthiers are trained and (perhaps more importantly) there's a market for the product. Remember, Japanese guitars also used to be thought of as cheap junk, and opinion has gradually caught up to reality as quality went up; that is, except for people who still can't get over the non-American bias and wouldn't play a Yairi or L-series Yamaha, as was discussed a week or so ago in a Yamaha thread. I also hear lots of good things about Faith guitars, despite Indonesia's reputation for making some of the cheapest Fender and Squier models. Guitar making is a skill, it's not something that's reliant on geography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Paul View Post
Tell us what your friend has. We can arm you with enough one liners about his gear to send him scurrying.
I wish we had a "like" button, for these two posts hit the nail on the head; one with excellent reasoning, the other with great humour.

Well..................like, like, like, like and more like.

Last edited by Steadfastly; 03-12-2019 at 06:58 PM.
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  #43  
Old 03-12-2019, 09:20 AM
RwP RwP is offline
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Originally Posted by RustyAxe View Post
He's not alone, many have such ignorant opinions. I own a Martin D18GE, a custom Martin OM-18, a Breedlove Roots OM, among others. And an Eastman AC420B. Love 'em all, but guess which one is my go-to guitar ... It really is THAT good.

The Chinese have been making acoustic stringed instruments since the beginning of time. They kinda know how to do it.
Have to agree, Chinese have been making string instruments long before Martin, Gibson,ect. I have USA made gibson, g@l and fender.And a Eastman t386 electric it,s a very nice plays well,did put some seth lover pickupsin by choice. And keeping eyes open for a acoustic Eastman.

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  #44  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:16 AM
penguin71 penguin71 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeo828 View Post
...

And I will tell you, I believe that these instruments will hold their value. There will be people who look at their build and materials and buy it. ...
This is purely your opinion and speculation - there is zero evidence that they will hold their value and nobody will know for sure until several decades or more from now. You're friend likely does not share your positive position on this speculation. His view on this speculation is no more or no less valid than yours. It's not necessarily anti-asian-made bias, but rather a difference in perceived value over the long-term.

One of the things that the MIC guitars are missing - whether you want to admit it or not - is history, and this history has value in the marketplace. I doubt people were buying Martins in the late 1800's and thinking "man, this thing will be worth a crap load of money in a century or so". However, we now know that they are.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 03-12-2019 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Removed religion
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  #45  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:29 AM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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Well, I think the idea that Chinese guitars have some kind of irrevocable stink on them because they are Chinese is silly. Their best guitars are very competitive and Eastman guitars are a good example of this, though I would have to note that an Eastman E10Ss/v costs about as much as a used modern Gibson j45, or pretty close. I'd rather have the Gibson for a number of reasons, but none of them have to do with the Eastman being made in China. Are we going to complain about Canadian guitars because they are Canadian? Every guitar, no matter who makes it, has to be played and judged on its merits as an instrument and some pass and some fail. Everybody makes duds sooner or later, after all. Who has not played a Martin or Gibson or Fender that happened to be inferior to the next guitar on the rack? They are all just made out of wood, after all.
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